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SHAKE
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06-14-2007, 02:05 AM
Post subject: So you wanna Play 6 max?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
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Heres some wisdom on 6max i think we cann take part in adding to. There are alot of people that dont understand some of the differences then full ring play. Some are large, some subtle. But heres some info i can passalong that hopfully will help you get started.
Preflop.
From UTG an UTG + 1 we want to stay tight, basicly raising for value. WE NEVER EVER LIMP. limping is death in SH play, period. I reccomend not playing anything but AJ+ 77+ and maby KQ
I routinely fold hands like A90 and 22-66 UTG with the excetion i might limp a small pair from UTG+1 if UTG limps and its a passive table.(play for set value only)
Anything else in these positions is trash. If you get 3 bet capping is normally in order (depending on reads of cource) Yes cap 77, cap Aj0. You will get 3-bet with weaker hands all the time.
From MP we can loosen up a litle maby adding A10s and KJs to our raising standers and we can definatly limp small pairs if there are limpers behind us. Never open limp, never.
C/o and button. C/o bassicly play like MP unless you think Button will fold off to you in wich case play like the button. There is value in A8s in position agisnt the blinds.
The BUTTON--to give you an idea of how important the button is
My VPIP from UTG is 14% from the button its 32! 2.5 times more hands!!!!
This is what we love about six max, we play more hands. I will raise any playable hand opening from the button, if there are limpers i raise A8s+ QTs+ 77+ . Position is huge, abuse it, you should be c-betting close to 80% of the time.
the BLINDS
Defending blinds is more important short handed then in full ring. Normally from a an UTG or UTG+1 raiser im going to give them respect (if i have no read) and only call or raise with big hands. If it looks like a steal raise i will 3 bet a wide varity of hands. A2+ KT+ QT+ JT any pair. Ill call any playable hand if i think its a steal raise. I dont know if i can reccomend this to newbies as it takes alot of post flop skill. First put your opp on a rabge of steal hands. Then consider what type of flops you can call or raise. 90% of the time when you check you will be bet into so have a plan!!! As far as the SB goes unless the pot is huge i never call its always 3-bet or fold just like anyother position. if you dont know already, never ever Cold CAll. You should be playing about 25% of hands total from the blinds. My fold to steal numbers are SB 80% bb 72% wich i think i may loosen up a little.
THE FLOP
This is where we use our reads, if your OOP with a weak hand after the flop your not playing right, it just shouldnt happen. If your UTG or UTG+! you should be betting most of the flops you see. as you should have been the last raiser preflop. (ill add more to this later in the week)
THE TURN
LEARN TO b/f!!! this is huge. If i have AK HU on a 894 board and c-bet and get called and a J hits the turn, if its checked to me I BET/f!!!
1.i may have the best hand
2. oppent may lay down the best hand
3. I could improve to the best hand
4. If im raised im probly way behind
most 6maxers live and die by the turn. Not many people can raise here with NOTHING. remember that. also remember this when defending you blind on a dry board. C/r the turn can be a very powerfull tool used from the blinds.
Ill be adding more to this and i hope you all will too. Feel free to mention any poits youd like to see mentioned. This is far from complete. I hope we can turn some people into winning 6 max players. Its very fishy waters out there, even by learning just the fundementals you can turn a nice profit at micro 6 max. Not to mention you grind out bonu's and FPP's faster.
SOME showdown stuff
Basicly if you have TPTK or better goto the river if the board isnt riddled with st's and flushes.
If you happen to flop a hand like 2 pair or a set, always wait untill the turn to raise if the board isnt to draw heavy. "check to the raiser" is huge in 6 max so dont miss value by slowing your opps down when the bets get big.
induce bluffs. Check call more then bet fold on the river. Alot of people will bet busted draws and A highs on the river if you check to them. If im betting down middle pair and the obvious fl draw misses i will check more then bet. (basicly only bet if you know youll get called, youll be surprised at how many bluffs you induce.
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sinky
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 295
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Some good points, here are a few comments....
Preflop you have defined 7 seats. UTG, UTG+1, MP, CO,BU,SB & BB.
In 6MAX, I think the common terminology for the 6 seats would be. UTG, MP, CO, BU, SB & BB (with MP sometimes refered to as HJ - Highjack)
In general my range of raising hands from UTG and MP is a bit looser than yours, for example I would raise A9s and KTs UTG.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
If you get 3 bet capping is normally in order (depending on reads of cource) Yes cap 77, cap Aj0. You will get 3-bet with weaker hands all the time.
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This depends entirely on who is 3 betting. I am not capping a tighty with 77 out of position.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
Position is huge
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Agreed, which leads onto the huge importance of table selection. If you can get a TAG or Rock on your immediate left then you effectively have the Button twice per round. Then hopefully the money will keep on flowing from the loose passives and maniacs on your right.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
As far as the SB goes unless the pot is huge i never call its always 3-bet or fold just like anyother position. if you dont know already, never ever Cold CAll.
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Cold Calling can be fine, if the raise has already been cold called in front of you. For example UTG raises, MP and CO call. You have 55 on the BU or SB.
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
My fold to steal numbers are SB 80% bb 72% which i think i may loosen up a little.
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SB is possibly a bit low, BB is too high
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Really the only thing I like that you said that may have not been mentioned around our forums is 3betting out of the SB. I 3bet a ton from the SB.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sinky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
My fold to steal numbers are SB 80% bb 72% which i think i may loosen up a little.
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SB is possibly a bit low, BB is too high |
those numbers are definitely too tight, especially at higher levels.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sinky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
My fold to steal numbers are SB 80% bb 72% which i think i may loosen up a little.
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SB is possibly a bit low, BB is too high |
those numbers are definitely too tight, especially at higher levels. |
He's too busy owning .5/1 to move up
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SHAKE
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
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very true about the .5 1.0, you guys would not believ my numbers if i showed them to you lol
about ah hehm 4.5 *cough* per 100
(not kidding)
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SHAKE
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sinky
Some good points, here are a few comments....
Preflop you have defined 7 seats. UTG, UTG+1, MP, CO,BU,SB & BB.
In 6MAX, I think the common terminology for the 6 seats would be. UTG, MP, CO, BU, SB & BB (with MP sometimes refered to as HJ - Highjack)
In general my range of raising hands from UTG and MP is a bit looser than yours, for example I would raise A9s and KTs UTG.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
If you get 3 bet capping is normally in order (depending on reads of cource) Yes cap 77, cap Aj0. You will get 3-bet with weaker hands all the time.
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This depends entirely on who is 3 betting. I am not capping a tighty with 77 out of position.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
Position is huge
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Agreed, which leads onto the huge importance of table selection. If you can get a TAG or Rock on your immediate left then you effectively have the Button twice per round. Then hopefully the money will keep on flowing from the loose passives and maniacs on your right.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
As far as the SB goes unless the pot is huge i never call its always 3-bet or fold just like anyother position. if you dont know already, never ever Cold CAll.
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Cold Calling can be fine, if the raise has already been cold called in front of you. For example UTG raises, MP and CO call. You have 55 on the BU or SB.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
My fold to steal numbers are SB 80% bb 72% which i think i may loosen up a little.
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SB is possibly a bit low, BB is too high |
all very good. Raising A9s and KTs utg is a little lite for me but im sure that range fits "your" style of play. My problem with that is when 3-bet your normally crushed, and OOP
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SHAKE
very true about the .5 1.0, you guys would not believ my numbers if i showed them to you lol
about ah hehm 4.5 *cough* per 100
(not kidding)
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sample size pls
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SHAKE
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
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about 15K at .5 1.0 and about 10K at .25 .50 as far as higher then that its all under 5K between 1-2 and 3-6
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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15k, that's a week of poker
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SHAKE
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
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since the 1st
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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LOL's
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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The problem with 6 max is your sample sizes don't mean much because the variance is so high. I have histories at different times of 5BB per 100 for 10K, then break even for 30K, then 3BB per 100 for 40K, then -1BB for 30 K. In a total of about 150K 6 max hands, I had about 3 100BB downswings, 2 150-200BB downswings, and a whopping 400BB downswing that ultimately moved me to NL just as I was about to move to 5/10 (just recovered my roll recently).
The best part about 6max limit though is you WILL learn how to play post flop at the slimmest of margins and learn to hand read with the best of them.
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i like 6max limit for one reason.
its easier to bust odds than in fr. it lends more to a TPTK style. whereas, imo, fr lends more to the art of drawing and protection.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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SHAKE
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
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you can own people with the picture cards!
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
its easier to bust odds than in fr. it lends more to a TPTK style. whereas, imo, fr lends more to the art of drawing and protection.
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and the art of gouging your eyes out from playing so tight.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by |~|ypermegachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
its easier to bust odds than in fr. it lends more to a TPTK style. whereas, imo, fr lends more to the art of drawing and protection.
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and the art of gouging your eyes out from playing so tight. |
you may know more about this than me, but i dont think i play as tight at 6max. i run about 28%ish. in fr, i run alot closer to 20.
i think it makes it tougher to read a player when they play more hands pf, and start betting on "any board" because they hit two pairs, draws, TP's, etc.
obvioulsy, you need to learn how to get out of the marginally strong hands before the turn, too. i have more fun mixing it up on a 6max table, and am almost as profitable as a fr table...about 2BB's in NL, and about 1/2 a BB in limit.
granted, you are supposed to be more profitable in 6max, so it seems i have a ways to go. it just seems like more fun. fr feels like nut camping, to me.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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chopper hyper was referring to tight play in Full Ring. We all run like 25/20 in 6max
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
fr is nut camping, to me.
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FYP.
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