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slowplay for maximum value

  
 
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gutshot
Old 11-22-2004, 03:07 PM     Post subject: slowplay for maximum value #1 (permalink)  
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gutshot
Most of the limit literature I have read advises against slowplay for fear of being outdrawn by letting more hands see more cards. I think this is one instances where slowplay was necessary to suck some additional value out of the hand.

First session I had played with SB and only about 5 hands into it so I had no real read on the guy. After the hand, I do.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, K.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero caps, Button calls, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (22 SB) K, K, 4 (5 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (11 BB) 7 (5 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, Button folds.

River: (14 BB) T (3 players)
SB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB
Main Pot: 22 BB, between SB and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (22 BB).

Results in white below:
SB has 8c 4d (two pair, kings and fours).
Hero has Kc Kh (four of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 22 BB.
-jay

"i think the biggest leak in my game is using 2nd level thinking against players who can't think on the first level." -Renton
 
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kingsthrone
Old 11-22-2004, 10:14 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I don't think the slowplay is necessary here, nor do I think you got maximum value. Checking the flop pretending to fear the king is resonable, but I think you need to at least raise the turn here. SB will likely at least call you down with a hand he capped preflop, and if he continues his agresion, you'll likely get to cap two more betting rounds.
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kidpoker22
Old 11-23-2004, 02:17 AM #3 (permalink)  

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I don't agree. If you smooth call the flop then raise the turn, your opponent should, unless he is a moron, put you on a trap. I think smooth calling the turn is correct unless you read your opponent for an extremely strong hand. And you almost never will get to cap the turn and river in that spot unless you're either playing an idiot or somebody who has filled up.
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Fnord
Old 11-24-2004, 12:25 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Bet the flop. You're expected to bet out here with AQo, and all kinds of crap will call the flop intending to fold unimproved on the turn (or heck, they'll call to the river then call your river bet just to see what you have...) Hard to justify slow playing with 4 other players in the hand.

Against players that play too many hands too far, too pasively; slow play is rarely correct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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ChezJ
Old 11-24-2004, 08:45 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 missing the raise on the turn was a big mistake. who cares if they smell a trap? two guys (SB, UTG) have already put in their money so they're not going to fold, they're going to call you or maybe even raise you. so you might knock out the button and lose 1 bet, but that's okay because you're going to get 1-2 more bets apiece out of SB and UTG.

you can usually extract money from people on the turn because they have irrational hopes and prayers to improve on the river. or even rational hopes (e.g., any two clubs had good odds to call 2 bets). but once the river falls, it's over and they might all fold to your bet. so get their money on the turn.

i also agree that a bet on the flop would have been profitable, since you were in LP and people might have assumed you were betting your position or 2 pr.

ChezJ
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