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dsaxton
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09-03-2007, 10:11 PM
Post subject: Slow-play the turn?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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No read, but at this level everyone is a fish. I almost never advocate slow-playing a big hand on the turn in this game, but this seems like a situation where checking almost must be better than betting. Any thoughts?
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , A.
2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.
Flop: (8 SB) 2 , 2 , 2 (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls.
Turn: (6 BB) 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero ?
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Yeah I check in this spot. Make it look like you have a pp that just got oudrawn. He may bluff the river, or even check-call with Kx.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Even a fish has a tiny brain. I say check the turn and give him a reason to think his K might be good.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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DrivingDog, you terribly misread SB's hand.
Barring a read his hand is really obvious, it's just a matter of how many bets we're getting out of him.
BTW: SB has 33-88 here a large % of the time. With *insert donk factor here* other stuff the rest of the time.
At first take I hated the flop raise. After thinking about it some more, I like it.
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
DrivingDog, you terribly misread SB's hand.
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You're absolutely right, his most obvious hand is a small pp. But he's not calling a turn bet with that either. The next most likely possibility is he's one of those guys who bets Ace-rag on that flop. So what i should have said is "give him a chance to think his K is good on the very slim chance that he should happen to have one, or bluff an even worse hand." I really don't see how else we're getting any more money out of a worse hand here, and getting check-raised on the turn by Ace-rag is only contributing to the rake.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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On the flop raising was only a small mistake if he had a pocket pair, but giving a cheap card to an entire field of live cards when my hand is best would be a terrible play (consider the equity I gain when I knock out as many as 6 live cards).
The chances that my hand is ahead of the small blind's are actually quite good (in my experience, the flop lead is more often a weak hand like ace rag than a full house in these situations, probably on account of card frequencies and the fact that many players will try to check-raise with a small full house in this situation, even though it is a bad play), and even if he does have a pocket pair, I have 6 outs, plus plenty of "pseudo outs" when a high card hits on the turn and he folds the best hand.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Wait, why not bet here? Slowplaying works in small pots with the chance that your opponent can make a better but still 2nd best hand. Your opponents hand cannot improve and the pot is largish. I don't think checking to get value on the river will make up for the times that you miss 2 bets against a poorer player. What do you expect him to call you with on the river that he won't call you down with on the turn?
As I think about it the river almost always improves a small PP's hand, but it doesn't improve it enough to get a call the right % of the time.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
As I think about it the river almost always improves a small PP's hand, but it doesn't improve it enough to get a call the right % of the time.
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...With quads on board the only hand that improves a small pp is a high card in hopes of a split.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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I know, hence the % of the time he actually improves his hand enough to call a river bet.
Yes, I can read boards Korn...
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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If he'll make retarded call-downs then the turn is an easy bet.
Otherwise, I like checking behind to try to get a bet out of him.
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
If he'll make retarded call-downs then the turn is an easy bet.
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Lol - he might think he's made some kind of "fuller house" with his 55. I've seen enough guys getting excited about having three pair to believe it.
I'm still checking behind on the turn. Would suck to see an Ace hit on the river though...
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quads full, also known as a penthouse.
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