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flopmonkey

12-08-2008, 11:16 PM Post subject: Sit & Go LIMIT Strategy

#1 (permalink)

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Is there a different strategy when you play S&G Limit tourneys? Or just keep playing normally?
Also, which is more profitable in the long run, cash games, or tourneys?

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flopmonkey

12-09-2008, 01:01 AM

#2 (permalink)

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second S&G 9 player limit tourney...finished 4th

flopmonkey

12-09-2008, 02:03 AM

#3 (permalink)

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I foresee an opportunity here, in pokerstars, these 9 player limit tourneys.
It only cost $1.20 to enter.
The payoff is : 1st $4:50, 2nd $2.70, 3rd $1.80

Have to share this convo that went on in my first tourney there, its so funny.

Had a couple maniacs there, and one solid player got mad...

solid player, who got bad beat: "K 7 offsuit is crap hand"

solid player: "watch out im going on tilt"

K 7 offsuit player: "whats tilt?"

Other maniac (that raises on the river even when he dont have ANYTHING):
"Its what comes up in the middle that matters dumb***"

Unfortunately I got a bad run of cards and lost in 5th place in this first tourney. Other maniac got really lucky I assume.

But I think with these kinds of players in those 9 player Limit tourneys, there is opportunities. May have to adjust strategy, im not sure. It cant be too hard, all you have to do is atleast get in 3rd place, and you win $.60. Finish 1st one in 6 games then what? How hard can it be to win consistently?

What do you guys think? Some math whiz figure out the odds here.

Also whenever you guys are bored, Id love to spend quality time at the table with you! come join my lowly tables at poker stars and chat with me and give me some pointers. Im almost always on since I play at my office and at home.

asdpikas

12-09-2008, 02:53 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2007

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the micro limit SnGs are pretty easy
play very tight at first... fold fold fold
loosen up and go more aggro once the blinds have gone up 5-6 levels
by that time it is almost always 5-6 handed or less

If you can identify a maniac, you may want to isolate him with showdownable hands and call him down (let him bluff his chips off to u) but dont give excessive action unless u flop really good

"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.

Ragnar4

12-09-2008, 07:23 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Location: Billings, Montana

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I disagree with playing tight at first. I think that in middle and late position you need to open up a little more. Suited one gappers on the button and CO, and any any suited connecters 45 or better.

The reason is because these tables are crazy limpfests early on, and you get way good on your money if you can catch, and will have a real opportunity to take down a big pot early. You'll still be raising with your premiums, but to play tight tight tight, is wrong IMO

All limit games are a struggle for the blinds, and at 5/10 for 1500, the blinds are worthless, so you should play tighter, the blinds sneak up on you much more quickly, because you can't stack a player.

Also, since there is a higher amount of variance in limit, so I actually think that winrates over time are going to be less worthwhile than NL sng's.

GL though. I would try some out but I'm under strict orders only to play FR.

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

asdpikas

12-09-2008, 08:23 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

Wrong wrong wrong...

Basic Tournament strategy:

The Ladder principle dictates it is much better to start with 1200 chips against 6 players than to start with 1500 chips against 9 players for the same prize money.

Survival is key, and chasing draws early on to win what looks like a big pot but is only 500 chips at the 10/20 level doesnt compare to surviving the first few levels with most of your stack and win a 2k pot with aces at the 100/200 level.

not very different than your normal NL SNG, and you said it, it's a battle for the blinds, so why put chips at risk with speculative hands when the blinds represent nothing?

You are in no hurry to win chips when you are anteing 30 chips every 10 hands.
Once your M gets to 10-15, then you should start getting active.

Even sitting out for the first 3levels is higher EV in a SNG than playing too many hands.

You have to understand that everytime someone busts you gain a lot, so while you are not against the ropes, you shouldnt force it risking your own early elimination. Cause if you dont hit after chasing a couple of draws, you may find yourself with 800 chips when the blinds go up to 50/100 and then you are in deep shit

WRONG about variance too (cashgame or tourney).
There is more variance in NL where you can lose your whole stack on the first hand.
That is variance, getting it all in w AA first hand and losing... you're out.
In limit, AA on the first hand, if you lose it doesnt even cost u 1/3 of your stack.

Chopper

12-09-2008, 09:01 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Location: St. Louis, MO

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no offense to all, and i know this isnt the original question, but...

only use these for "fun" to break up the grind. they take too long and dont pay out enough. you would be better off opening 4 tables of regular stakes. you should make that $4 in an hour soon enough, imo.

as for variance, my experience (the way it feels to me) is that variance is much more severe in NL games. but, lasts WAY longer in limit games.

if we "measure" the swings, we come out about the same. 10 BI swing in NL is a 500bb downer in LHE...assuming you buy in for 100 bb's at a NL game. but, my 500bb downer would take longer to both achieve and recuperate from. not that i've experienced one...yet. however, i have experienced a 10+ BI swing in NL. and, it happened over the course of 2 weeks. and, it SUCKED. my biggest swing in LHE is about 200 bb....maybe. but, it took longer than any 2 weeks to recover from, too.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

flopmonkey

12-10-2008, 12:22 AM

#8 (permalink)

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I prefer straight up poker cash games to tourneys. Just wondering if the tourneys had any advantages for the long term player.

Sabr1988

12-11-2008, 01:00 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I allways play agressive at the start when the blinds are so small, i will try to call allmost every hand, hoping for 3 of a kind or 2 pairs.

When the levels gets higher i will slow down and only call the better cards, and then in some minutes i will end up winning..

With patience you win

Chopper

12-12-2008, 01:18 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

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Quote:

Originally Posted by allermooiste

you cant bluf with limit poker it is so hard to bluff

dead wrong, imo. care to explain/stick around awhile?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

flopmonkey

12-12-2008, 01:36 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Its harder to pull off a bluff in limit, (especially in low micro-limits) compared to no limit. Cant just shove all your stack in with crap hands and try to bluff people. Thats why I prefer playing limit.

Theres more to poker than bluffing.

Chopper

12-12-2008, 01:55 AM

#12 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopmonkey

Theres more to poker than bluffing.

i said that because i suspect that guy was just a spammer/troll.

but, since you commented, too, i wanted to clarify that the element of bluffing is still critically important in limit. and, even at the lowest stakes it MUST be used to keep players calling you, and to keep them guessing.

there ARE plenty of spots in limit to use bluffs, but they are "sweeter" moves, imo, because you cant just shove your stack in.

its just that bluffing, especially at the ultramicros, is overused. or, its used in obvious spots. learn to bluff properly in limit, and you will add MORE to your winrate than the passive stuff i've been mentioning lately.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

flopmonkey

12-12-2008, 02:24 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Ive had limited success with bluffing. Seems to work better the less players at the table..when the board dont look good...lots of checking..even after a KK on the flop...then a J falls, AUTOBET! They all fold, works 70% of the time.

I only pure bluff about 2% of the time, Im a fan of semi bluffing though.

Chopper

12-12-2008, 03:47 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by flopmonkey

Ive had limited success with bluffing. Seems to work better the less players in the hand..

fyp

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopmonkey

...when the board dont look good...lots of checking..even after a KK on the flop...then a J falls, AUTOBET! They all fold, works 70% of the time.

I only pure bluff about 2% of the time, Im a fan of semi bluffing though.

semibluffing IS bluffing. pure bluffing, in limit, should be very rare. but, it should still be done because there are spots for it. but, you need a feel for the villains you are playing and what they may perceive the board/card doing for YOU. so, image plays a role...sort of. (and, those that say you cant have an image at the low stakes arent paying attention.)

bluff scare cards. paired middle cards when the flop checked around. donk flops in limped pots when an A comes on a dry board. stuff like that.

and, yes, the fewer players the better. in HU pots, i am rather bluffy. but, 3way, and especially 4way, i am almost always playing straight up. blind v blind and when the button is trying to steal my bb, its GAME ON! lets see who has the bigger balls...even at lower stakes. (but, i dont do it relentlessly because even the biggest idiot will start calling you down.)

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

BennyLaRue

12-18-2008, 02:31 PM

#15 (permalink)

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BennyLaRue is a glorious beacon of light

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

only use these for "fun" to break up the grind. they take too long and dont pay out enough.

Yes and no. They do take a very long time but given soft fields at each stake, they can pay at a rate equivalent to FR. The $1.20 SNGs are equivalent to buying into a .02/.04 FR game, where it would take a very long time to profit $3.30.

The question is can you find a soft SNG at the limit your BR can tolerate? If not, stick to FR. If you can, they can be both fun and profitable.

flopmonkey

12-18-2008, 03:16 PM

#16 (permalink)

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The last few 9player table SNG's ive joined, Ive been coming in 2nd and 3rd. dont mean to brag heh. I seem to do better than I do in full ring. So Ive been more interested in them lately.

But its a whole different strategy than full ring, since the key is survival. Not Grinding. And most sng players are very loose and aggressive in the beginning. I found that if I do the opposite, play only premium hands in beginning, I usually get in the money more easily, then I can loosen up alittle.

Chopper

12-18-2008, 03:33 PM

#17 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopmonkey

And most sng players are very loose and aggressive in the beginning. I found that if I do the opposite..

this goes for ring games, too. its the easiest way to, generally, exploit players' tendencies.

if players/tables are playing tight and passive, you should start to adjust towards the opposite....looser and more aggressive.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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