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A simple little 99 hand from today...

  
 
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Fnord
Old 01-25-2005, 11:59 PM     Post subject: A simple little 99 hand from today... #1 (permalink)  
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Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is BB with 9, 9.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Fnord raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Flop: (11 SB) 6, 4, A (5 players)
Fnord bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 7 (5 players)
Fnord checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Button calls, Fnord folds...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-26-2005, 12:19 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 You must have had some kind of read, I dont know what you can tell from preflop.

First off, I think raising from the BB with 99 is debatable. Sure, you do it for value, but you aren't going to limit the field and you're only going to win with a set. I think its possible to represent the Ace in situation, and actually check raise the flop. You might force some Axs out of the pot by calling two bets.

Turn, I don't understand the stop and go, you werent facing a raise and a reraise, you folded to UTG+2 betting. He could just be betting because you checked. Granted, you do have MP1 and Button both calling, but they still arent showing too much aggression.

Marginal hand, probably no EV if you stayed in the hand or if you folded, and probably some guy had the Ace, another drawing to a backdoor straight or something stupid.


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Trikflow77
Old 01-26-2005, 12:42 AM #3 (permalink)  
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pretty easy check fold. I would have played the hand the exact same way.
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Fnord
Old 01-26-2005, 01:02 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Yeah, this hand plays very differently with position...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Trikflow77
Old 01-26-2005, 01:16 AM #5 (permalink)  
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jeff... with all the callers it is likely that one of them has a weak ace playing it passively. Tough to get a weak ace out after he alrealy called a bet......facing two cold though he might muck it.
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gabe
Old 01-26-2005, 01:47 PM #6 (permalink)  
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when to slow down with pocket pair? should i have checked/called on the turn or river? thanks

read on UTG is tight/passive

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 8.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6, 4, 6 (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 9 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, CO folds, SB folds.

River: (9 BB) T (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-26-2005, 02:35 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 I think you played it alright. There's no reason to think you are down until raised back at.

I'm assuming you lost here. But a Tight/passive player preflop UTG is going to play hands like Axs, KQo, AJo, and possibly Pocket Pairs up to Ten or Jack without raising. I'm putting him on A9s here, and he's too afraid you have the 6.

A possible play would be to check on the river with an intention on calling. This is generally regarded as a bad play, as you could force him to fold with a better hand. However, by checking, a player who normally would have folded for a bet could try now buying the pot, and you get an extra bet out of him. There are a couple good reasons for this play:

1. You get to see the showdown for cheap if he's afraid you have something. (against a passive opponent)
2. You can't get raised on the river, forcing you to make a crying call. This limits your bets to just 1. (against an aggressive opponent)
3. He could just have A-high and will try and bluff the pot, giving you an extra bet if you win. (against a loose-aggressive opponent)

Generally, in this situation, only those players that can beat your hand, will call you. But players that have nothing may still try and bet and win the pot. Win-Win situation if you ask me...


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elipsesjeff
Old 01-26-2005, 02:44 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trikflow77
jeff... with all the callers it is likely that one of them has a weak ace playing it passively. Tough to get a weak ace out after he alrealy called a bet......facing two cold though he might muck it.
I dont know how you can put any player on any type of hand here especially without showing any aggression, but it is likely one player has an ace. I'm surprised fnord doesn't at least represent the ace here.

Secondly, why bet the flop if you are going to check fold the turn anyway? You've got four callers, you might as well check it then if you plan on giving up the turn anyway...

Thirdly, this pot is pretty big. Its 11 BB when he folded and will probably end up being 15 by the time its all over. UTG could be betting with a straight draw or who knows what. I would have bet out the turn, and if raised, then think about folding.

So, who won the hand?


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LeFou
Old 01-26-2005, 05:10 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Secondly, why bet the flop if you are going to check fold the turn anyway? You've got four callers, you might as well check it then if you plan on giving up the turn anyway...
I think I see the logic here. If <3 people call, there's a good chance the nines are winning. If 3 or more, there's very little chance. Cheap escape. I like the play. But of course, I'm LeFou.
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Trikflow77
Old 01-26-2005, 07:05 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Gabe I think you played your hand well. Out of position all you can do is fire bullets. Fnords hand I still get out of the hand with a quickness. Any Ace rag flop that is not coordinated and you get 4 callers......seems like a weak tight player with an ace or a slowplayed two pair or set. out of position you are opening youself up to get caught up in a hand that you are drawing to 2 outs. Fnord what won that hand??
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Ayce
Old 01-26-2005, 09:13 PM #11 (permalink)  
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I'd say good fold, I'd say weak Ace and a draw for the other two.
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