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Should I have Checked this hand on the Turn

  
 
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BlakeCH47
Old 07-24-2006, 09:49 PM     Post subject: Should I have Checked this hand on the Turn #1 (permalink)  

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BlakeCH47
I count this hand as a "monster" flop. Let me know what you think. Hindsight, I'm pretty surprised he called a raise with J-2o

Hand #33597461-2063 at Coal City ($.25/$.50 Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 24/Jul/06 17:22:21

salberto is at seat 0 with $13.85.
jaz man is at seat 1 with $39.25.
muck007 is at seat 2 with $25.05.
GoldChalice is at seat 3 with $6.85.
fithypig is at seat 4 with $27.70.
CH47 is at seat 5 with $17.95.
Shortstaked is at seat 6 with $28.75.
adishman is at seat 7 with $21.40.
CrustyAce is at seat 8 with $25.
83tf00 is at seat 9 with $61.70.
The button is at seat 2.

GoldChalice posts the small blind of $.10.
fithypig posts the big blind of $.25.

salberto: -- --
jaz man: -- --
muck007: -- --
GoldChalice: -- --
fithypig: -- --
CH47: Kh Ah
Shortstaked: -- --
adishman: -- --
83tf00: -- --

Pre-flop:

CH47 raises to $.50. Shortstaked folds. adishman
calls. 83tf00 folds. salberto folds. jaz man
folds. muck007 folds. GoldChalice folds. fithypig
calls.

Flop (board: 8h Qh 9h):

fithypig bets $.25. CH47 calls. adishman folds.

Turn (board: 8h Qh 9h Th):

fithypig checks. CH47 checks.

River (board: 8h Qh 9h Th 4d):

fithypig bets $.50. CH47 raises to $1. fithypig
re-raises to $1.50. CH47 re-raises to $2. fithypig
calls.



Showdown:

edited, let me know if you want the holding. at the request of someone else I removed it
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LimpinAintEZ
Old 07-24-2006, 09:58 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I can't quite believe you guys didn't get all the money in on the river - Whats with all the min-raising? Yeah, that is a monster flop - I sometimes play these weak, I sometimes play it stronger - I try to never do anything all the time...

but clear the results - that skews the posts - Clear out what the showdown was or put it in white - Otherwise ti's not a interesting decision...Results skew opinions - as for me, i sometimes check the turn, i sometimes bet weakly hoping they raise me, and sometimes I overbet to make it look like i'm trying to steal it (this is the least useful, unless im up against a guy who will call good size bets with any hand)
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thenonsequitur
Old 07-24-2006, 10:37 PM #3 (permalink)  
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thenonsequitur
Quote:
Originally Posted by LimpinAintEZ
Whats with all the min-raising?
....
....
It's limit.
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thenonsequitur
Old 07-24-2006, 10:39 PM     Post subject: Re: Should I have Checked this hand on the Turn #4 (permalink)  
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thenonsequitur
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeCH47
Should I have Checked this hand on the Turn
There's a lot to say about how you played this hand, but before going into details, I'd like to know what your whole logic and thought process was when you checked this turn. That will help gear the discussion towards the right path to help you the most.
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BlakeCH47
Old 07-24-2006, 11:20 PM     Post subject: Good question #5 (permalink)  

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BlakeCH47
Well first off everyone had folded to me, so I put in a raise. I thought about raising, but I went with the pot building idea. So I had a good hand to start with. Obviously I flopped the best hand without question, so I didn't want to raise on the flop, this may have not been the best answer, but I was the Pre flop raiser, so I wanted to keep him in, hopefully to make a hand with a Q or T. After a call from me on the flop he may have been suspicious so he checked on the Turn, so I checked as well. Obviously he made his hand on the river, I never thought that he would be holding a Jh. He may have checked and called on the turn, but I would have been beaten either way if he had done that. I guess I could have made a different play on the flop, but I really thought he would fold on a raise, cause I knew I had the AKh. That was my train of thought.
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KoRnholio
Old 07-25-2006, 12:37 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 Bet the turn. On the river I'd raise then call instead of capping it. Unless he's a total donk, he isn't doing this with 6h, 7h or a straight. You're probably looking at the Jh once he 3bets that river.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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thenonsequitur
Old 07-25-2006, 01:01 AM     Post subject: Re: Good question #7 (permalink)  
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thenonsequitur
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeCH47
Obviously I flopped the best hand without question, so I didn't want to raise on the flop, this may have not been the best answer, but I was the Pre flop raiser, so I wanted to keep him in, hopefully to make a hand with a Q or T.
I would raise the flop. You said later that your flat-call on the flop might have made him suspicious, and this is true. You are expected to raise the flop, and by raising you make it next to impossible for him to put you on a flopped flush. While it didn't matter much this time, because a 4th flush scare card came on the turn and would slow down many hands, more often than not two non-flush cards will come and they won't think you have a flush if you raised the flop, and may play back on the big streets with a strong or even medium second-best hand.

Also, the board is so straight-coordinated and two-pair coordinated that you are likely to get calls or even re-raises on the flop. Building a big pot with a monster is always good, not just because it's more money, but the bigger pot will entice people to put more money in later. Also, while nut flush is a nice hand, but unlike something like a flopped full house it doesn't cripple the deck nearly as much. Your opponents are still likely to have call-worthy hands they have reason to deem might be good.

The turn is a really easy bet, and it's not even close. It doesn't matter how suspicious he is, you have to bet and hope he has something (and if you raise this flop you don't have to worry about him being suspicious). Feigning weakness here does nothing good for you really. It occasionally wins a single bet on the river, but way more often it loses one or more bets on the turn when he has a call- or checkraise-worthy hand.

The best way to make money off a monster is to put money in the pot. You can't win a big pot without building a big pot.

Oh, and also, I slow down a bit on the river (and slow down a bit on the turn against passive players). Thi might seem contradictory to what I just said, but it isn't really. Someone is going to war with you on a scary board. Players can plainly see that there are 4-to-the-flush out there and no pairs on the board, so when someone plays back that heavily on the river, there is a good chance they have that one card you don't want to see.
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BlakeCH47
Old 07-25-2006, 02:04 AM     Post subject: Didn't put him on a J #8 (permalink)  

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BlakeCH47
The main thing is, I definitely didn't put him on a Jh. I was thinking all the hands that I thought he may be have playing were either on the board already or I he had two pair, or a set or something even with a flush. I mean I guess in my thinking I'm not calling a raise to begin with, with a J-low, even if it is of the same suit. I do understand raising on the flop though. I guess that is the only way I could have won that particular hand.
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