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drtofu66
Old 09-13-2005, 01:37 AM     Post subject: Set HU #1 (permalink)  
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Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, 5.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 6 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) K, 5, T (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

River: (8.25 BB) A (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

This was better than the 99 set I posted a couple of days ago.
I'm cringing through the flop betting, though, as I'm wondering if he's got KK or TT (shows how I've been running lately when I'm even considering that).
Small question: the A on the river and his raise got me wondering about a straight or bigger set so I just called. Do you re-raise?
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mike4066
Old 09-13-2005, 01:43 AM #2 (permalink)  
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raise the river
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outphase
Old 09-13-2005, 01:52 AM #3 (permalink)  
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KK would raise the turn because it doesn't complete anything
TT would not slowdown either
QJ wouldn't 3 bet like that

villian has AK, you need a value raise on the river
Quote:
Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
 
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:22 AM #4 (permalink)  
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You need to cap that river.
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mike4066
Old 09-13-2005, 02:28 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Ok here is why I say to raise the river.
There are only 4 somewhat unlikely hands that beat you right now

AA, KK, TT
Any of those three hands should have raised you on the turn.
Going Set over Set is somewhat rare and should be paid off hard each time. I believe set over set will even out in the long run *super long run*.

QJs possibly plays like this depending on how aggressive his is in EP preflop.

This looks like AK, and I would 3bet.

*If you lose with a set and don't lose alot you didn't play it right*
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drtofu66
Old 09-13-2005, 02:53 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Damn, you guys are good-- villain had AsKs. When I see the hand history formatted like that, it makes it obvious that's what he had. I've got to slow down and think about the previous betting rounds when I get reraised. QJ doesn't 3 bet I can see that. But, how do you know to discount AA here?

I'm still working on putting people on hands (steep learning curve that'll only come with play and study but I should've seen this one). Tiny leak worth 1 or 2 BB's in this instance. The bigger leak used to be me not stopping to think when someone reraises. I used to be on the other end capping like a dumbass with only 2 pair vs a set. That leak is plugged but I've sprung this one.

How is the villain's play here? Hypothetically flip this around-- you have AsKs on this hand. You play the aggressor and juice the pot on the flop. Slow down on the turn when you don't hit your flush and you get 2 pair on the river. Do you reraise then? Maybe not a fair question given the 'what ifs' but I'm curious what you all think.

EDITED TO ADD: Thanks Mike-- good philosophy. You posted as I was typing this one out.
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Old 09-13-2005, 03:10 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtofu66
Damn, you guys are good-- villain had AsKs. When I see the hand history formatted like that, it makes it obvious that's what he had. I've got to slow down and think about the previous betting rounds when I get reraised. QJ doesn't 3 bet I can see that. But, how do you know to discount AA here?

I'm still working on putting people on hands (steep learning curve that'll only come with play and study but I should've seen this one). Tiny leak worth 1 or 2 BB's in this instance. The bigger leak used to be me not stopping to think when someone reraises. I used to be on the other end capping like a dumbass with only 2 pair vs a set. That leak is plugged but I've sprung this one.

How is the villain's play here? Hypothetically flip this around-- you have AsKs on this hand. You play the aggressor and juice the pot on the flop. Slow down on the turn when you don't hit your flush and you get 2 pair on the river. Do you reraise then? Maybe not a fair question given the 'what ifs' but I'm curious what you all think.

EDITED TO ADD: Thanks Mike-- good philosophy. You posted as I was typing this one out.
Villain's play was fine given he hit his hand, has the nut flush draw. You know, after you 3-bet the river I'd probably start thinking a set is a possibility and call. But I wouldn't really think of playing two pair strong as a "leak" per se.
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outphase
Old 09-13-2005, 05:28 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drtofu66
Damn, you guys are good-- villain had AsKs. When I see the hand history formatted like that, it makes it obvious that's what he had. I've got to slow down and think about the previous betting rounds when I get reraised. QJ doesn't 3 bet I can see that. But, how do you know to discount AA here?

I'm still working on putting people on hands (steep learning curve that'll only come with play and study but I should've seen this one). Tiny leak worth 1 or 2 BB's in this instance. The bigger leak used to be me not stopping to think when someone reraises. I used to be on the other end capping like a dumbass with only 2 pair vs a set. That leak is plugged but I've sprung this one.

How is the villain's play here? Hypothetically flip this around-- you have AsKs on this hand. You play the aggressor and juice the pot on the flop. Slow down on the turn when you don't hit your flush and you get 2 pair on the river. Do you reraise then? Maybe not a fair question given the 'what ifs' but I'm curious what you all think.

EDITED TO ADD: Thanks Mike-- good philosophy. You posted as I was typing this one out.
Here's how I would've thought it through as your villian

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hypothetical Hero is UTG+1 with A, K.
1 fold, Hypothetical Hero raises, 6 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) K, 5, T (2 players)
BB checks, Hypothetical Hero bets, BB raises, Hypothetical Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hypothetical Hero calls.

Flop thoughts: TPTK with the nut flush draw and I raised preflop, I'm bound to be good here.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 3 (2 players)
BB bets, Hypothetical Hero calls.

Turn thoughts: uhoh, this is a blank... does he have 2 pair or maybe even a set?

River: (8.25 BB) A (2 players)
BB bets, Hypothetical Hero raises, BB calls.

River thoughts: I got top 2 pair now. QJ wouldn't keep leading out like that or even cap. He might have a set... let's raise to see where I stand.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB
Quote:
Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 09-13-2005, 05:46 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 Fold preflop.


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
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drtofu66
Old 09-13-2005, 01:14 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Fold preflop.
I almost did.

I thought a long time before I called this one, but since it wasn't going to cost me more than one SB to see the flop I figured it was worth it. Not much different than limping in EP with a small PP and getting folded around and raised behind by the BB.
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drtofu66
Old 09-13-2005, 01:52 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outphase
Here's how I would've thought it through as your villian
Awesome.
Thank you outphase; this whole thread was incredibly helpful to me (and other lurkers I'm sure).
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