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Lance
Old 12-18-2008, 01:37 PM     Post subject: semibluffing #1 (permalink)  
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Villian is 26/18/3.1

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K
UTG raises, 4 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls

Flop: (8.5 SB) 6, J, 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

Turn: (4.25 BB) K (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls

River: (12.25 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls

Total pot: $20.25 (20.25 BB) | Rake: $0.50
Main pot: $20.25 (20.25 BB) between Hero and UTG, won by UTG

Results:
Hero mucked K, K (three of a kind, Kings).
UTG had 10, A (flush, Ace high).

After the 3-bet on the turn i was 99% sure he has the set of Jacks.
I reraised the river coz i would never put him on the Flush because he showed aggression on the turn and was 100% behind.
Maybe this is the great example why semibluffing is so powerful. If you hit you can get extra implied odds.
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Chopper
Old 12-18-2008, 01:51 PM #2 (permalink)  
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imo, villain played this horribly after raising the turn. if you c/r the turn, how will you EVER fold to a 3bet? he has zero FE. i understand he thinks he has 12-15 outs...although he cant think his A's are all clean. he also doesnt understand that TP+ crushes his equity here, and AK isnt folding to a 3bet, either. he has about 25% equity, even with his outs, and he is still jamming w/ no chance you are folding. this guy is a spewtard.

my question also is: why didnt you lead the flop and hope to 3bet his raise? he's a 3.1 AF that has to be prone to semibluffing flops with diamond draws.

but, i am not giving much credit to the runner runner, either. i am pretty much capping this one on the river, too. but, i lead the flop. its a capped pot pf, checking the flop through befuddles me.

this is NOT a lesson in semibluffing! this is a lesson in spewtardedness...that got lucky.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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BennyLaRue
Old 12-18-2008, 02:05 PM     Post subject: Re: semibluffing #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
I reraised the river coz i would never put him on the Flush because he showed aggression on the turn and was 100% behind.
On the turn, with two potential flush draws and straight draws out there, it certainly should have crossed your mind that he was on a strong draw. This doesn't scream trip jacks to me. Wouldn't he have bet the flop in that case? You 3-bet pre...you're not going anywhere in the face of one SB so he would have safely bet.

Given the turn cap, the river 3-bet without a hand stronger than a set is spewy.
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Lance
Old 12-18-2008, 03:47 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
my question also is: why didnt you lead the flop and hope to 3bet his raise?
I flopped the nuts i have tend to slow play this hand against 1 player. After preflop villian's capping i put him on AA, QQ, JJ...
after he checked to me i knew that he is slowplaying something.
If not i wanted to give him free card to improve his hand.
If i bet the flop he could fold his weaker hand....dunno
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DrivingDog
Old 12-18-2008, 03:54 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Villian's turn 3bet is molton spew. If you ever see me playing like this against anyone but the goofiest bluffer please put me against the nearest wall and shoot me.

He had ~15% equity in the pot on the turn and risked putting in 4 BB when he could have risked putting in two or even just taken the free card.

7/46 times (like here) he'll win and because his retardedness disguises his hand he'll earn a few extra BB.

3/46 he'll hit an Ace on the river and lose at least one more BB.

2/46 times he'll hit a flush at the same time as you make a FH and will lose probably 3 more BB.

3/46 he'll hit a ten and probably lose one more BB.

The other 31/46 times (about 2/3rds) he'll completely whiff the river and will have just put 4BB in on the turn for nothing.

Maybe you shouldn't 3bet the river, but I probably would.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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asdpikas
Old 12-18-2008, 03:57 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivingDog
Villian's turn 3bet is molton spew. If you ever see me playing like this against anyone but the goofiest bluffer please put me against the nearest wall and shoot me.

He had ~15% equity in the pot on the turn and risked putting in 4 BB when he could have risked putting in two or even just taken the free card.

7/46 times (like here) he'll win and because his retardedness disguises his hand he'll earn a few extra BB.

3/46 he'll hit an Ace on the river and lose at least one more BB.

2/46 times he'll hit a flush at the same time as you make a FH and will lose probably 3 more BB.

3/46 he'll hit a ten and probably lose one more BB.

The other 31/46 times (about 2/3rds) he'll completely whiff the river and will have just put 4BB in on the turn for nothing.

Maybe you shouldn't 3bet the river, but I probably would.
+3 queens for a straight

But, right on, villain is a spewtard
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Chopper
Old 12-18-2008, 04:40 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
....dunno
sorry, i am going to be harsh here. but......clearly you dunno. ok, now let's FIX that.

i broke your thought into bold where i wanted to pull my hair out. lets go through it piece by piece. (dont take offense, i have said so many stupid things worse than this. its not a personal attack. ok?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
Quote:
my question also is: why didnt you lead the flop and hope to 3bet his raise?
I flopped the nuts... i have tend to slow play this hand against 1 player. After preflop villian's capping i put him on AA, QQ, JJ...
after he checked to me i knew that he is slowplaying something....
If not i wanted to give him free card to improve his hand....
If i bet the flop he could fold his weaker hand....dunno
part one... you did NOT flop the nuts!!!!! 44 has a set and crushes you.

part two... against one player, and especially one this aggressive (3.1 AF...remember your stat read), you should NEVER slowplay because he will raise your monster leads with pure CRAPPOLA. let him, and CHARGE him! if he is giving money, you need to get in the taking business. free cards DO NOT get this job done.

part three... i didnt highlight your JJ/QQ/AA idea, but its worth noting that JJ and AA crush you, too. again, you didnt FLOP the nuts!

part four... after checking to you? you did NOT know he was slowplaying something. well, it turned out he was "slowplaying" a pure assmunch of a hand. we all do what you did: put people on too tight a range. but, again, your stat read should have led to a wider possibility than "slowplaying a monster since he checked," especially SINCE he checked.

part five... "if NOT, i wanted to give a free card?" what do you mean....if he is NOT slowplaying, why do you want to give a free card? that is when you charge the HELL out of them. bet/raise him when he wont fold because he caught something already.

part six... yeah, he could. but, those are the breaks. if he folds trash, he shouldnt have CAPPED preflop with you, and you should be eternally grateful you are sitting with a world-class donkified dillshit. up higher, this douchebag pays everyone's rent, but his own. but, only if you ALLOW him to by SPEWING OFF HIS CHIPS! checking and slowplaying wont allow him to spew off as many as HE would like to when he catches a 2nd best hand (which he will a lot).

when you cap a flop, you shouldnt probably be folding any hand HU against a villain this aggro. you both have something strong. the stronger guy keeps firing, and the weaker guy is controlling the pot...hoping for a bit of a bluff. besides, you would have AKish/99ish, at the worst, and after the 4 sb's, its only 2.5 bb's more to gain a ton of info on him for later....with a strong possibility of winning a hand w/ Ahi against a bluffy fuck.

sorry to turn this into a rant. again, its nothing personal. but, there were some serious flaws in that thinking. as it turned out, except for the lack of a flop lead, you played the hand correctly. he didnt. those are the breaks. but, rejoice in the fact he is alive and sitting at your table. buy him a cocktail. you'll have your money back in no time. but, correct the WHY's of what you did and you'll be on your way to not even giving this douche a fighting chance in stinkyland.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Lance
Old 12-18-2008, 07:48 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
....dunno
sorry, i am going to be harsh here. but......clearly you dunno. ok, now let's FIX that.

i broke your thought into bold where i wanted to pull my hair out. lets go through it piece by piece. (dont take offense, i have said so many stupid things worse than this. its not a personal attack. ok?)
Chopper i will be thankful for any comment from you.
Your main point is absolutely right.
I just want to correct my sentence. I had the nuts on the turn not flop.
But anyway i should bet the flop without hesitation.
Honestly i started to play the hand seriously when i hit the turn card - thats the disadvantage of playing 9-tabling.
I need to focus on 3-4 tabling and start to play some advanced poker.
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Chopper
Old 12-18-2008, 08:01 PM #9 (permalink)  
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agreed that 9-tabling will have you miss some opportunities. and, i dont think the games these days are very conducive to massive multitabling anymore. but, that may just be most of us. i'm sure there are still some very successful multis out there. however, i cant play just a couple, either. i try and keep 2-4 6max tables up and 4-6 full ring....depending on the levels i am playing.

btw, i was hoping you meant "turn," but some of the other stuff made me question that thought.

thing is, in that hand, imo, you need to keep the pressure on w/ KK. only AA/JJ is likely out and he may have some hands that he will go too far with. capped pot....i doubt 44 is in there.

i would have understood if you would have said, "i missed my c/r on the flop." but, i would still think going for b/3b would be better...or b/c and c/r turn.

anyway, you won (because HE made the most mistakes), and i got on you pretty hard. lets forget that hand and move on to some others?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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KoRnholio
Old 12-18-2008, 08:12 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 Basically, semi-bluffing is only good if you have Fold equity and/or better pot equity than your opponent(s). The villain in this hand has zero fold equity, and on the turn has less equity even with his big draw. Hence this is just an epic spew.

If he capped AsTs on a flop of J64 (2 spades) that is different, as he has much equity in the pot (at least 45%) and can fold out hands like AJ-AK by the river quite often.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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DrivingDog
Old 12-18-2008, 08:20 PM #11 (permalink)  
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yeah you're right Asd. 4/46 Q's for the straight. Still molton spew but i think i made my point
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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