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bigspenda73
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07-05-2006, 07:24 AM
Post subject: Second question of the day
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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As I mentioned in my previous post I play the 4/8 LHE at my local casino. The situation I would like to discuss is rasing in late position at a loose table with many 'limpers'. I have always leaned towards aggression with any strong hand, as I learned from Harmon in SS2, she states that the aggressive player in LHE will be more profitable in the long run. However, I will use one hand as an example to refute this. I am in the big blind with 2 jacks, there are 6 limpers ahead of me and I raise it up another bet. Now I can see everyone else's face, they just wanted to limp and see a flop with their q9 offsuit. However, they still all call!! No one makes it three to isolate and the pot is now at $48 minus rake. The problem I have with raising with a strong hand is now I have made the pot so big no one will fold at all after the flop and most hands will chase to the river. What is the best way to play this? Should I have just checked, seen a flop and went from there? I made a pot huge, got no information, and gave everyone the odds to catch up against me. Any advice, thanks a bunch ppl.
'Spenda73
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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You still raise for value
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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When you raise, you have to think of why you are raising.
1) Is it for value?
2) Is it to get people out of the pot?
3) Is it for deception/free card
etc.
Thus, raising in this instance isn't going to fold anyone, which is why many live players scoffle at the idea. You won't win many pots in this instance, as even AA is only a 30% favorite facing 6 limpers. HOWEVER, the pots you do win will be larger. It is difficult to regain the value lost postflop from losing the 3 BB preflop you would have gotten if you raise.
Hold'em Poker For Advanced Players goes into detail about why you should raise AK in multiway pots, its because it is a drawing hand. However, your edge multiway is so large that you've got to raise, as you have the best of it.
In both cases you are going to have to take into account correct post flop play, especially in multiway pots. Check/raising a field of limpers to give them odds or waiting for the turn to raise are two ways of increasing your chances of winning a nice pot.
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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raising into limpers in LHE and expecting a fold is just... not right hahah
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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You know, I had a guy limp/fold HU yesterday after I raised to isolate. It didn't make any sense as he was a 60/5.
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
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Kessler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 117
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Think of it this way, how many garbage, 9-high flops do you see? If you raise JJ in the BB, and the flop comes 379r and you bet into it, you'll probably get 2 or 3 folds from mid/late position. You could also go for the check/raise if the button auto-bets, but since you were the PF raiser there's a good chance that it'll check through, so just c-bet. Fire again on a blank turn and the K-highs and Unpaired Aces are going to have to think twice about calling with air. Loose Passives playing 4/8 live love to draw to 6 outs, but they're making mistakes, and we like that. 
Granted, if the flop comes AQ7 2-flush, and a MP limper bets, you can probably check/call or check/fold if you feel your beat by that big of a field, (which you probably are) and wait for the next chance. JJ and TT are tough hands to play, and OOP makes them more difficult. But there's still lots of value if you can chase out the overcards before they pair up.
-Kes
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If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
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