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Fnord
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06-02-2005, 10:24 PM
Post subject: Seat selection quiz
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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You enter a cardroom and find an 8 handed 15/30 table. It's a mix of weak/tight and kinda semi-tight/typical players with one really tough player who plays about 25% (edit: I didn't say 25% VP$IP) of his hands and will not fold marginal hands when you raise pre-flop. The floor lets you add a seat anywhere at the table
Where do you want to be seated relative to this player?
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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Think I'm the odd ball out of the group that will vote other on this one... I personally think giving him position is an extremely bad idea... on the other hand putting yourself on his left (to your right) might not be the correct choose either, given if he is to your imitate right you would end up in blind wars with him... so I think if I had to chose I would want this guy across the table, I think that maybe even 3 to your right might be ok if you can defined your blinds well... Given the situation and looking at it I think the best place is to put his ass across the table from you in neutral PO...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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Phyl
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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I'll post my thoughts in white below in fairness to those who haven't voted.
I voted across the table. Since this is a tight table there's going to be a lot of late position vs. blinds pots and even with position I don't want to be involved in too many pots with this player.
I can't think of any real advantages to giving him position since he'll defend his blinds well. He also wont give you the button often because he's aware of position and wont just let you steal it.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Phyl nailed it.
I find it interesting that table/seat selection is at least 10x more important than most of the threads on these boards. Yet, there is very little discussion of it and the conventional wisdom on the subject is quite often flawed.
The best writing I've seen on the subject is in some random Caro material and scattered amoung Mason's Poker Essays.
Now consider, that we're no longer in a world where our local cardroom has very little room for exercising these skills. In the online world we have dozens, hundereds of tables/seats to pick from depending on the range of sites/limits we're willing to play.
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stickonadog
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 19
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just curious, after playing thousands of hands do you guys actually remember some of these people? I normally play 3-6 live games and i, because of the sheer number of hours i've played, have come to recognize quite a few of the players there.. hell i even know the life stories of some of the dealers. But anywhos, do you guys actually remember the names of these online players? I find myself rarely glancing at their name but rather their character (the person in the seat) which throws me off :[
i guess one just needs to adjust.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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Yes I’ll remember a player for one of two reasons... he gave me a horrible bad beat and plays like complete shit OR he is a very solid player and one that I need to watch for...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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poskid_1982
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 392
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I didnt vote cause you guys and your numbers screw me all up.
So basically what you are saying is that this is one of those players that you dont want to have marginal holdings with? So you place yourself at opposite ends of the table to give yourself a ranged spectrum of hands to play should you go into a pot with him (playing only strong hands from EP and playing stronger hands when he raises from EP)? This way you can (hopefully) avoid any pots with him on marginal holdings?
If I'm way off let me know.
Whats the best place to learn how to equate and apply these numbers? I've been playing mostly off reads and bare bones pot odds.
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Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Now that my blind defense has improved, I almost always prefer to have immediate position on the tough/tricky players. Perhaps I need to rethink that...
One thing I don't like about being across the table from this guy is that, on a tight table, you can extend your blind steal range out to about MP1, but a tough cutoff or button might pick up on that and start three betting you.
I definitely don't want this guy to have immediate position on me.
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Poker is freedom
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I'll be the real oddball here and give him position on me (someone has to make the argument). Since we'll be seeing lots of showdowns here I'm able to bring more tricks out of my bag against him. Against a player like this I'm showing down Ace high and check/calling down middle pair in most examples to pure trickery. You also have to take into effect the gap theory as well as his skill level compared to your own. If this is a straight up 15/30 table then it shouldnt play any different than any other 3/6 table. In general I'm in favor to give my position to the tags, its the big fish I want position on. The only reason why I would want position on him here is to get lots of free turn cards from him, but if he's tricky he probably wouldnt let me take them anyway.
If you had said it was a tricky 15/30 table with 4 cold callers to every raise then I would want position on him.
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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All I know about position is that I like to have the worst player at the table on my right so I can isolate him easier. With that said, I guess I'd probably sit across from the good player, so I don't have to tangle with him as often. I definately need to work on improving my ability to find good tables/seats though. I don't think about it too much other than joining the highest average pot size tables and semi-avoiding certain players.
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
The best writing I've seen on the subject is in some random Caro material and scattered amoung Mason's Poker Essays.
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Yup, Caro has some very useful position based concepts laid out in his SS2 section that I thought were bang on. Well worth a read and re-read IMHO.
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