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LawDude

11-16-2009, 07:30 AM Post subject: scenes from a day of live poker

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

I played 4 different stakes at two different casinos today. Here's a taste:

I started out at Hustler. I was there to play 6/12 or 8/16, but some regulars I know were trying to get a 25/50 table going and were short, and I was rolled enough for it, so I decided to play a bit of 25/50. This level is full of good players, just about everyone at the table was a TAG, though some were better at making +EV calls and raises than others.

I quickly started bleeding chips. Here are a couple of typical hands.

Guy to my right loves to steal blinds. I am in the SB with Q9s. Folds to guy to my right on the button, who raises. I call from the SB, and the big blind folds.

Flop is Q74. I check, button bets, I raise, button calls.

Turn is 2. I bet, button calls.

River is a K. I check, button bets, I call.

He had K2. Lovely.

Next orbit he again opens from the button. I have A8o. I call, BB again folds.

Flop is AT4. I check, he bets, I raise, he 3-bets, I call.

Turn is blank. I check, he bets, I call.

River is blank. I check, he bets, I call.

He's got A4. Yuck.

I started my big comeback by hitting the flop with AK a couple of times. Then I got pocket kings in a multi-way pot and they held up when everyone missed their draws. Sweet.

Then, this hand:

I am on the button with pocket aces. Folds to MP2, who raises. I 3-bet, he calls.

Flop is JJ8 rainbow. He bets, I raise, he 3-bets, I call

Turn is a blank. He bets, I call.

River is a blank. He checks. Hero.......

I won't tell you the result yet.

I ended up +$51 after 2 hours of 25/50, and my seat opened up at 6/12 so I chipped down. Nothing remarkable at 6/12, and then I got a seat playing 8/16.

There, these two hands happened in succession against a player who was tilting.

First hand (which exacerbated his tilt):

I am on the button with 8h6h. 4 players limp, including the villain. I limp too. SB completes. BB checks. Great!

Flop is AT4 with 2 hearts. Checks to the villain in MP, who leads. A couple of callers, I raise to get the free card, he 3-bets and one of the other players "courtesy caps" (that's a strange phenomenon in California where players will cap with a weak hand just to get the extra action). Pot is bloated beyond belief.

Turn is a blank. Checks to villain, he bets, now he gets a fold or 2, and I call him.

River is the 2 of hearts. Villain bets, folds to me, I raise, villain lets out a string of profanities, calls, and shows down his ATo. Now he's really mad and saying he's gonna get me.

Next hand, I'm in the CO. Villain limps, everyone else folds. I got A5o. OK, aggression wins poker hands, and aces play well heads up, right? I raise, folds to villain, who calls.

Flop is 557. Yahtzee!

Villain checks, I bet, villain calls.

Turn is K. Villain donks. Oh boy. I raise. Villain calls.

River is 7. Villain checks. I bet. Villain calls. He had 76 suited. He wins. Immediately (I didn't ask him), he says "oh my god, I put you on pocket kings when you made that turn raise". Monsters under the bed, anyone?

Ended up plus another $200 after 1 1/2 hours of 6/12 and 8/16. I cash in and have dinner.

Then it's out to Normandie. Normandie is a small cardroom near Hustler which is historic in a sense-- it was here where California gamblers first got together to play ace-to-five lowball, exploiting a loophole in California law that allowed people to play poker even as casinos were banned. In any event, Normandie is cozy, full of regulars, and is generally ignored by younger players who like the flashier, nicer larger cardrooms.

I started out at the 4/8 table, while I was waiting for 8/16 (their biggest limit, they only have one table of it). All the 4/8 players were saying "wow, you are going to play 8/16, that table carries the $43,000 jackpot!". Like that's the criteria for choosing what stakes to play. (The 4/8 jackpot is only 15K.)

Well, I made one ace-high flush with my AK suited. But soon, I was called over to play 8/16.

As I said, Normandie is full of regulars. They are not very good and most of them act like they've never seen a good poker player. Seriously-- I win a pot with AQ after raising pre-flop and someone says "I never raise with AQ, it never seems to hit for me" and half the table agrees. Sigh.

But there is one lady there in seat 9 who is raising. Indeed, she's taking down a lot of pots with pure aggression, because the rest of the table is so weak-tight that they give nits a bad name. They all know her and treat her condescendingly-- I suppose what usually happens is her luck changes when she runs into one of these nits when they get a monster. Well, OK, I know what I want to do. I want to get heads up against Ms. LAG every chance I get.

I ended up winning $330 at this table, and I will spare you all the gory details, but here were my 4 big isolation hands against her:

Hand 1. I am in the CO with AK. She is in early position and raises. Everyone folds. I 3-bet, she caps. Flop is QT4 rainbow. She bets, I call with my outs. Turn and river are blanks and she checks it down. She's got Q9o. Nice hand.

Hand 2. I am in the BB with 44. She raises from late position, folds around to me, I call. Flop is T97 with 2 hearts. She bets, I call. Turn is an A. Both players check. River is a jack. I check. she bets. I go into the tank and fold. She says "good fold", turns over Q8 of hearts.

Hand 3. Kill pot. She's won 2-pots in a row. The kill at Normandie is a full kill, which means the game plays as 16/32. She gets to act last pre-flop as the kill poster. I am in late position.

1 limper, folds to me. I raise with A9o. The button calls me, she calls me, as does the limper.

Flop is A94 all hearts. Checks to me, I bet, button calls, she calls, limper folds.

Turn is a blank. Checks to me, I bet, button calls, she calls.

River is a heart. Uh oh. Checks to me, I check. Button bets. She folds. I decide to make a crying call. It pays off as the button had flatted me with AQo, no heart.

And then the coup de grace-- a hand that caused everyone at the table to look at me like I was a complete weirdo.

I am in the SB. She raises, folds to me. I have AJo. I 3-bet her, The BB folds, she calls.

Flop is J96, couple of spades. I bet, she calls.

Turn is a 7. I bet, she calls.

River is an 8. I check, she checks, I turn over AJ, she mucks. BB next to me immediately says "I would have made a straight, why do you 3-bet AJ? That's not that good a hand". Then ensues a long discussion where at least 6 players berate me for 3-betting AJ offsuit.

I picked up pocket kings and pocket jacks on a couple of consecutive hands, took down a couple of more pots, and figured I had overstayed my welcome. It was a nice day of poker.

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ponyboy

11-16-2009, 10:06 AM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 379

Wow. I need to start playing live poker if that's the general makeup of these places. Great day for you though, well done.

Just a general question on that last hand. Did you 3 bet it in order to make sure the BB went out and she was isolated or do you normally 3 bet AJ in that position regardless?

Chopper

11-16-2009, 02:11 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

i LOVE stories like these. and, you have a great writing style, dude. keep this stuff coming...very entertaining.

however, i do have some comments that you know i cant resist sharing about the hands. i got into the first iso 3bet against Ms. LAG and i cant bite my tongue any longer...lol.

at table one,
you say your villain on your right "likes to steal blinds." well, what are you waiting for with your read? 3bet somewhere. A8, granted, isn't the greatest hand because it's dominated, has great SD value, and the BB garners a little less respect with defending by 3betting. however, the Q9s hand? 3! that shit! you fold the SB and pick up the dead money, you tell the stealer to stop F'ing with you, and if you hit a nice hand, he wont suspect you holding something so weak....but you wont likely make it to showdown anyway. stick up for yourself when the chance arises.

i also likely b/f that river in the JJ8r flop hand.

table two,
the "courtesy caps" are a beautiful thing to see. and, what the F did villain expect in such a bloated pot with ATo? its not like he could deny you odds to grab that flush.

and, villain made a mistake in the 557K7 board by not raising the river. i know he put you on KK, but thats all he should be worried about. any 7 splits and any 5 he has beat and he already has a bet out of you on the river if you are bluffing. poor play by him, imo, which is great for you.

table at normadie,
why are we not raising AK on a QTX board? 10 outs twice against a loose raiser? you have lots of outs and the option to take the free card on the turn. raise for value, imo.

hand 2, i think is a fine fold. that flop is all over her range and she loves to bet draws. you dont know where you are and by the river, 44 isnt going to be best often, imo.

hand 3, wow! lucky you. fine hand.

hand 4, once again, your tables are full of the stupid teaching the stupid how to play. great news.....THEY SUCK! i am glad you 3bet AJ there. you are doing so for value against her range as well as defense as well as picking up the dead money in the BB. great play with a solid hand.

now, against those nits other than Ms LAG, i dont know that AJo is a great hand to 3bet from the SB. however, AJs is all day long.

i just love it when players try and tell me they limp AK because it "isnt made yet." and, i love when a player folds his blind to me when i btn steal and says, "jeez, i had 57s and wanted to play a BBJ hand. why do you raise from there with trash?" i usually, tell them, "because you fold."

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

codemanz4

11-16-2009, 07:20 PM

#4 (permalink)

High Card

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Macomb, IL

Posts: 8

Hey Lawdude,

Nice story! You helped make up my mind for me....when I stop in Chicago on Friday night on my way home for Thanksgiving break, I'm definitely playing poker in the cardroom in the casino I usually visit. No blackjack/slots for me this time!

LawDude

11-16-2009, 07:34 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponyboy

I 3-bet AJo in that situation for 3 reasons:

1. Isolation. I wanted to play heads up against a player who will donate her chips to me if I hit a decent hand.

2. Value. I am ahead of her raising range, so if I get heads up against her I will be a favorite to win the pot and any chips I put in will have a positive EV.

3. Fold equity. By 3-betting, I am representing a big hand. If she believes the raise, I may get her to fold with post-flop aggression even if I miss.

In my discussion with Chopper, below, you will see that one of the reasons I didn't 3-bet some of the other hands is because some of these factors went the other way.

dranger7070

11-16-2009, 07:36 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy

Posts: 2,476

This is awesome, makes me miss playing live lately.

Ah well, couple months and I might be able to again.

MOAR STORIES

LawDude

11-16-2009, 07:42 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

at table one,
you say your villain on your right "likes to steal blinds." well, what are you waiting for with your read? 3bet somewhere. A8, granted, isn't the greatest hand because it's dominated, has great SD value, and the BB garners a little less respect with defending by 3betting. however, the Q9s hand? 3! that shit! you fold the SB and pick up the dead money, you tell the stealer to stop F'ing with you, and if you hit a nice hand, he wont suspect you holding something so weak....but you wont likely make it to showdown anyway. stick up for yourself when the chance arises.

Here's the thing about 3-betting in blind battles. First, it's a wonderful thing to do if you are ahead of the raiser's range. Then you have more than 50 percent equity.

Second, it's a wonderful thing to do if you have fold equity.

Third, it's an OK thing to do if you need to do it to get another player to fold out and get heads up.

Fourth, it's not such a wonderful thing to do if you have none of the above. Indeed, by 3-betting, you bloat the pot some more and make calling correct. If he's going to chase his K2 down to the river in a 2-bet pot, just imagine what he is going to do when the pot is bigger.

That's not to say I never 3-bet in these situations. I sometimes do, sometimes don't. But those are the variables I am thinking about.

Quote:

i also likely b/f that river in the JJ8r flop hand.

I put that hand in because I see this checked down way too often. Players rarely check-raise the river, because they are afraid of a check behind. Indeed, when I do see players check-raise the river, it is often a bluff. Yeah, I bet, he called, I showed, he mucked.

For me, that situation is a bet/call.

Quote:

and, villain made a mistake in the 557K7 board by not raising the river. i know he put you on KK, but thats all he should be worried about. any 7 splits and any 5 he has beat and he already has a bet out of you on the river if you are bluffing. poor play by him, imo, which is great for you.

Absolutely. He was fearing the monsters under the bed.

Quote:

table at normadie,
why are we not raising AK on a QTX board? 10 outs twice against a loose raiser? you have lots of outs and the option to take the free card on the turn. raise for value, imo.

Well, I think you need more than 50 percent equity (fold equity + pot equity) to raise for value here. So the only reason to raise is to get a free card. I gambled she was going to slow down, and I turned out to be right. But there's nothing wrong with the free card raise in this situation.

Chopper

11-16-2009, 09:56 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

i understand what you are saying, but i am saying you HAVE some of those situations against a light stealer. you are suited, connected and have decent TP power with the Q in a HU battle. you 3bet to a) shut the stealer up, b) to get the BB out, c) to take the initiative in the hand and fold out the stealer if he holds crap and misses the flop. but, you have some nice backups if the flop comes your way AND hits the stealer, too. i am not saying to do this all the time. but, i think when your read is that the guy likes to steal blinds, you need to look for a spot or two rather quickly....to see if he even is willing to slow down. if he slows up, great. if not, you make another adjustment.

normandie hand, i think you are underestimating your equity. (dont we always have this debate? lol)

10 outs twice + FE + the fact you may be best already = 50%+ for me. however, if this is a nittier player, we need to completely re-evaluate our equity estimation. this is just an adjustment to the player, not a default move. ...although, for me, its a default move...lol. i likes to builds big potz in limits games because i plays better in thems than my fishy villainz.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

LawDude

11-16-2009, 10:59 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

1. In my experience decent mid- and high-limit players are not fazed by 3-bets of their steal attempts. They know they still have position and will call you down light. But this is villain-dependent and I do sometimes 3-bet in that situation.

2. I didn't assume I had much fold equity after the pot was capped pre-flop. As I said, though, it's a perfectly legitimate free card play.

Chopper

11-16-2009, 11:23 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

agreed that "decent" players know this. but, were they decent? i assumed they weren't.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

LawDude

11-16-2009, 11:55 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

Quote:

I started out at Hustler. I was there to play 6/12 or 8/16, but some regulars I know were trying to get a 25/50 table going and were short, and I was rolled enough for it, so I decided to play a bit of 25/50. This level is full of good players, just about everyone at the table was a TAG, though some were better at making +EV calls and raises than others.

Chopper

11-17-2009, 02:00 AM

#12 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

lol. we can argue over this all day. but, i dont think it gets us anywhere because we are basically in agreement, its just that YOU know how to read, and i dont.

however, here is the part that grabbed me more than what you quoted, and why my interpretation was "off."

Quote:

I quickly started bleeding chips....Guy to my right loves to steal blinds. I am in the SB..

to me, you are a prime player to attack lightly until you catch a hand.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

LawDude

11-17-2009, 02:14 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

Quote:

I quickly started bleeding chips....Guy to my right loves to steal blinds. I am in the SB..

to me, you are a prime player to attack lightly until you catch a hand.

I suspect a lot of this is FR vs. 6-max sensibility, but 3-betting light only works when you either have lots of fold equity or have the better starting hand. These are very good reasons to do it, and sometimes you need to do it to isolate as well and blow the BB out of there, but if your reasoning to 3-bet light is "I need to let that guy know I won't be pushed around", that's a pretty nice recipe for spewing chips at 25+ live limit in these parts. You are much better off (1) showing down light and (2) getting the stealer to donk chips into you when you have him crushed.

But if you have decent fold equity, by all means, 3-bet your butt off.

Chopper

11-17-2009, 02:17 PM

#14 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

good point. and, yes, i think it IS 6max mentality. that or simplistic, ego-driven thinking.

but, that is why it really works for a 6max guy coming back over to FR. comparatively, FR players are uber tight and nitty in their blinds. and, i think LHE depends largely on successful blind defense to pad your winrate a bit.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

dead spade

11-18-2009, 06:55 AM

#15 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2009

Posts: 6

i play live at my friends house and have never played at a card house i just dont know if i have enuogh skills

Muzzard

11-28-2009, 04:39 AM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Cheshire, UK

Posts: 1,843

cool story bro

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