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on a scale of 1-10 how retarded did i play this

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pokerlearner

11-22-2005, 07:43 PM Post subject: on a scale of 1-10 how retarded did i play this

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

with 10 being VERY RETARDED and 1 being good play.
I myself rate it as 7 (somewhat retarded but still not that bad chasin !!

If i missed my hand of course i wouldnt be posting this.

However, i was wondering if on some level it was somewhat ok play or regardless of everything a horrible play in my part ??

B&M $6-$12.

Table is VERY Loose. An hour back, I raised KK, UTG+1 and got 6 callers and of course got it cracked

.

MP2 is a terrible player and calls down with bottom pair on a scary board. cold calls every single thing. I did put him on a set this hand.

UTG+1 is new player at the table and no reads.

I play with CO every day. He is a loose caller (cold calls a lot of hands), overall decent player, better than regular folks at $6-$12 (but bluffs missed draws too much, calls down with middle pair too much).
--------------------------------------------------------
Hero is UTG+2 with Ks-10s

Preflop: UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, CO 3 bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 caps, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls

Flop (27 sb): Qc-Jc-4d
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP2 raises, CO calls,UTG+1 3 bets, Hero calls, MP2 caps, CO calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls

Turn: Qc-Jc-4d-7s
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP2 raises, CO calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: Qc-Jc-4d-7s-Ah
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, MP2 3 bets (all in), CO calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero caps, CO calls

UTG+1 shows Q-Q for set of Queens
CO shows A-4 suited (dont remmeber suit)

Hero wins huge pot.

1) I did put UTG+1 on a set of Queens. Didnt know what UTG+1 had.

I would have given it up if the board paired at any point because of my strong read. Since I didnt have 8 outs (because someone was probably holding A-K or A-A something like that, was that really too bad to stay till the river for my OESD.), given that I am sure my K or 10 are no good. I need to hit 9 or the 2 Aces at minimum.

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Phyl

11-22-2005, 08:03 PM

#2 (permalink)

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I don't think there's anywhere you can fold this post-flop given the insane size of the pot. I'd play it the same.

Andy Holt

11-22-2005, 08:09 PM

#3 (permalink)

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You can't assume the aces are in play if you can't see them. You had 8 outs, period.

I would probably play this the same, I can't crunch the numbers right now but I think you're getting good odds for your OESD. With no paired board and no flush possible you're drawing to the nuts.

Stupidity level: 2

But only because your cold-call preflop in UTG+2 is debatable with a table like this. Raise so you get some added value when you hit. Postflop I play it the same. There was so much money in the pot by that point that you could chase.

By the way, how's B&M going so far?

Ltrain

11-22-2005, 08:15 PM

#4 (permalink)

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I would put it at a 3 only because you could MAYBE find a fold on the flop after the 3 bet and before the cap, but after that the pot is just too big and I thought you played it fine. What I think is important is that you had the nut OESD, and the capped flop would devalue a possible flush draw.

I am guessing you thought you played this badly because the guy with trip queens cussed you out?

"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.

Phyl

11-22-2005, 08:25 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ltrain

I would put it at a 3 only because you could MAYBE find a fold on the flop after the 3 bet and before the cap, but after that the pot is just too big and I thought you played it fine.

After the 3-bet he's getting immediate odds of 17.5-1 and even if he knows MP2 will cap that still gives him about 13-1 to call the 3 more bets. I think folding would be a big mistake.

pokerlearner

11-22-2005, 08:52 PM

#6 (permalink)

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correction: MP1 showed set of Queens, not UTG+1 sorry about that. typo. I dont know what UTG+1 had. i think he said something but my heart was pounding after winning that huge pot. my biggest ever (not in terms of bb but $)

at one point during the hand i felt that i had the odds, at other point when i was squeezed between 2 raisers, i felt i was burning chips..

Ltrain, ya...MP1 was PISSED. he was ranting. I dont talk that much but i felt tempted to remind him that he was the one who cold called my KK raise with 4-7o and made a straight with that.

Andy, $6-$12 is going good. But its a very small sample so far (played only 6 sessions, all +ve). However, for some reason i felt more confident of my skill against $4-$8 players than $6-$12. They make more moves than previous level and i have to adjust to that. Still results wise its encouraging and if something drastic happens i definitely will ask my FTR buddies for advice and help here

.

with the aggression i see here among FTR players, you guys would crack the B&M game open and drain all the chips from others.

. i play Taggy too but much less moves than average good players at this level. My bluff is still confined to only doing continuation bets on turn (rarely on river) by AK or AQ unimproved. LOL

Andy Holt

11-22-2005, 09:06 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

with the aggression i see here among FTR players, you guys would crack the B&M game open and drain all the chips from others.

That's nice of you to say. I play $3-$6 sometimes at the local casino, it's really boring but I always see such terrible play, even worse than micro-limits online. I really wish I could somehow play against those players at the $3-$6 6max online. What a goldmine that would be.

I think it's fun to get out and play live sometimes, but I just get bored too easily. Oh well.

Fnord

11-22-2005, 09:16 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Ni Han.

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Demiparadigm

11-22-2005, 10:06 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I'll give you a 3.
The only fold I can find is A) preflop vice limping -or-
B) preflop for the 3 bet.
Postflop is perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Holt

You can't assume the aces are in play if you can't see them. You had 8 outs, period.

This is the opposite of true.
Bayes theorem tells us that A) someone probably has an ace -and-
B) someone probably has a flush draw.
You are looking at the equivalent of about 5 outs. The thing is, you have odds to draw to 5 outs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ltrain

you could MAYBE find a fold on the flop after the 3 bet and before the cap

This is HORRIBLE advice. You are getting 40 to 1 on a call after the flop cap, closing the action. If you have exactly one out to the nuts, you have odds to call.
This would specifically be the worst spot to fold during the entire hand, except maybe the river.
If you mean not calling the 3 bet, which would make more sense (but not quite what you wrote) then Phyl answered why its a good play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

i play Taggy too but much less moves than average good players at this level. My bluff is still confined to only doing continuation bets on turn (rarely on river) by AK or AQ unimproved. LOL

I am glad to hear that you are doing well at 6/12. I reccommend spending quite a while at 6/12 before moving up again. If you remember, I told you some time ago to move to 6/12 as quickly as you could. Mostly because the rake is easier and the players are not much better. There is a definite change once you move to the red chip games though.
Spend some free time learning the online game... play as many hands as you can. While you will make more playing 6/12 live, you will learn more 4 tabling the .5/1 game.

Good Luck.

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

pokerlearner

11-22-2005, 10:18 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Location: california

Posts: 366

Andy, I hear you when you say "i get bored too easily". Thats my only problem live is that you cant multitable. and I am not too sociable, so i just try to engage in some meaningless conversation with 2 next players, watch cocktail waitresses etc etc in between hands. when you are playing 3-4 hands maximum outside blinds per hour it is hard to be patient. (and i do then resort to some suited gapper shit plays LOL, K-7s, Q-8s)

But just think of the edge you guys would have against these B&M players. I mean its like you guys would be playing with "rigged deck" or "loaded dice" or something. Thats the ONLY reason i quit playing online poker and play exclusively b&M now (7 days a week, 4 hours a day

, oh I have no life !!) . Sure its nice to play in the computer wearing my boxers. but where would you find this type of competition. surely not online !!

I know that differnet posters HAVE PROVEN MATHEMATICALLY that online poker is more profitable than live. I dont object to that. Its just that in my brain, i know that my edge is more against weaker opponents than stronger opponents live (or at least the style of play).

pokerlearner

11-22-2005, 10:26 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Location: california

Posts: 366

Thanks Demi. I appreciate all your advice. Actually time to time I revisit my old posts and see the replies again so as to get any more new information that i forgot or maybe omitted at the time.

I did 4-table $0.5-$1 at Party for a few months and played about 23000 - 30000 hands total. a lot of the plays that i am seeing here resembles some online players. I see people checkraising overcards and betting till river, I am seeing check raising top pair low kicker and then betting turn and checking river. all in all very aggressive.

most noticeable change is betting the river to steal the pot. I still dont have that 6th sense to bet into 3-4 players weakness. I mean i see some people bet the river when they have been quiet till the river and win the pot. WTF ?

i have a lot to learn and my work cut out at this level. I am definitely not moving to next level ($9-$18) until i play this for quite a while. I know I already have the bankroll for the next level but I want to be ready game wise for the next level too.

Ltrain

11-23-2005, 01:29 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ltrain

you could MAYBE find a fold on the flop after the 3 bet and before the cap

Yes, I meant not calling the 3 bet before the cap behind hero, after the cap, you must call. Also, I agree with Phyl that you call in almost every case to the 3 bet (probably every time online) and I understand why. However, live with better reads on body language, I can see once in a while getting tells of domination, especially people you play against more regularly, and finding a fold. But I capitalized maybe because it is being hypercritical, I thought he played it fine.

"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.

relayer

11-23-2005, 04:33 PM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posts: 68

"While you will make more playing 6/12 live, you will learn more 4 tabling the .5/1 game. "

Serious question: Given the very impressive analyses which many of you experienced players offer up here in reviewing hand histories, it is clear that much thought goes into playing these hands. If that is so, how can you possibly play 4 hands at a time? I have more than enough to think about playing one table on line at a time---but four? Is it that you guys have played so many hands that the assesment of every hand is automatic, requiring little or no new analysis?

In any event, I'm impressed.

Hate

11-23-2005, 05:44 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Posts: 322

It is rare that 4-tabling you get 4 hands at the same time out of which you do not fold at leas 2

Demiparadigm

11-23-2005, 09:02 PM

#15 (permalink)

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About 70% of hands preflop are auto folds. Another 10-15% are situational folds e.g. KJs in MP to an UTG raise.
Then, at least a third of these you are folding on the flop. You probably fold another third between the turn and river.
since on a full table you are playing ~20% of your hands, and only taking about a third of these all the way to showdown, very rarely do you have 2 tables on which you need to make complicated decisions.

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

Fnord

11-23-2005, 09:42 PM

#16 (permalink)

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If you have 2 difficult decsions 4 tabling, just make one and think about the other. If you're a good player and it's difficult, it's probably close anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

elipsesjeff

11-23-2005, 11:00 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Perfectly played. I wouldn't have played it any different, with an exception of raising on the flop after you called.

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