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Fnord
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10-13-2004, 10:29 PM
Post subject: S&M on the CMU rankings...
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=&sb=5&o=&vc=1
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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Nice read there. Need to look at it more later when I have time. Table 4 is very interesting though, as is their dissertation on AK NOT playing well as the number of opponents increase.
I also like this:
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S&M ignore TT, but it actually benefits from multi-way action, as does JJ. We would therefore urge you to consider raising these hands for value if the raise is not likely to drive out foes in a loose game
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This is along the lines of what you have been telling me Fnord...of course it depends on whether the game is tight or loose. Would make it more sensible to raise with those hands from the back rather than the front. I have been doing a lot of raising with PP from the front for isolation, and limping a lot from the back. I definitely need to rethink this. I may have it completely backwards.
I advise everyone to go to Fnord's link above.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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S&M's comments are even more interesting.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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16. In The Savvy Gambler’s Play List Taylor points out that 22 and 33 are never worth playing. He fails to realize that these are hands which if you do not flop a set, you usually immediately fold without having it cost you very much. But when you flop a set they are highly profitable. Thus they should be rated higher than their winning percentage indicates.
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What are your PokerTracker results with 22/33? I am losing a little with them overall. I tend to agree with Taylor on 22/33, at least so far. I would like to hear from someone who has more hands in PT though.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lhoney2
What are your PokerTracker results with 22/33? I am losing a little with them overall. I tend to agree with Taylor on 22/33, at least so far. I would like to hear from someone who has more hands in PT though.
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22 is a small loser, mostly because of busted sets and failing to make a set it's fair share of times. I think 33 is in the black. As a whole, I'm profitable with the whole 22-66 range.
Both should be stronger hands at the micro-limits because you're more likely to get multiple players that bring just about anything to the river. As you move up they lose value (players learn to fold), but may regain it in some of the higher limits where there are more spots were you just need a hand, and the lost value from callers is replaced by opponents playing weaker hands more aggressivly.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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For me: 4,053 hand sample size. Half .25/.50, half .50/1.00
66 - 19 times - +4.80
55 -22 times - +8.75
44 -16 times - -3.90
33 -5 times - -4.00
22 -24 times - -6.50
Still not a good sample size, since you will only hit a set with a pocket pair 1 out of 7.5 times. Would probably need a 100K sample size to get a good picture.
I guess part of the reason the bigger small pairs do better is they are more useful in making the occasional straight, because they don't have much power as pairs go on their own merit.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lhoney2
For me: 4,053 hand sample size.
Still not a good sample size, since you will only hit a set with a pocket pair 1 out of 7.5 times. Would probably need a 100K sample size to get a good picture.
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I'm currently in a stretch of hands of similar length where AKo is a loser for me.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lhoney2
I guess part of the reason the bigger small pairs do better is they are more useful in making the occasional straight, because they don't have much power as pairs go on their own merit.
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Straights, set over set, boat over boat, beating other small pairs when no one catches much of anything.
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