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Humphrind

07-29-2004, 07:15 PM Post subject: Road trip to Nebraska

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

Well, I'm doing well at Omaha hi lo.

I've been stepping into $.01 / $.02 PL Omaha Hi Lo ring games in my spare time. I just want to broaden my horizons.

Of the last 6 times I have gone into one of these rooms, I have left the room up 4 times! I'm very happy.

I think tonight I'm going to find a $5 PL Omaha Hi Lo tournament. I don't expect to take 1st, but I'm going to give it a go in a higher stakes setting.

Here are some points for those who haven't explored the Omaha hi lo world.

When you play any hi lo game, you want multiple players. In holdem you are looking to narrow the field and it is very often said that you only want 1 opponent. In hi lo, you cannot survive with only 1 player in most situations. If there is a lo and a hi hand, and you win one of them, you will only take half the pot. If there are only 2 people playing this pot, and you can only take 1/2, you will take out of the pot exactly what you put in. In the same situation, with 3 people in the pot, you can take half which will be all of what you put in, plus half what the 3rd player put in. You will be up. But watch out, if you split the lo or high pot (it's very common to split the lo pot) you will walk away with 1/4 or the pot, when you put in 1/2 or 1/3 of the money.

I've read some experts say that if you are playing hi lo anything, it will never be profitable to win half the pot. A good starting hand will have a good high hand possibility. A great starting hand will have both.

In Omaha you can only use 2 hole cards and 3 community cards. No more, no less. For this reason, if you are delt 4 of a kind, you should fold it pre-flop. This is really tough to do, but you cannot hope to trip your 4s when you already have all 4 of them. You cannot make a flush when you have 4 different suits, and you cannot make a straight when all your cards have the same rank. You should also consider throwing away 4 to a flush. There are only 9 other card of your suit in the deck and the odds that your suit will come up have diminished.

On the opposite side, you should play 4 cards to a straight. Or if your cards are double suited. Example

With this hand you have the possibility of a lot of straights. You can get a K or 8 and any 2 cards in your hand to make a straight, this gives you 12 different straight possibilites. You can also catch 3

s or 3

s to catch a flush. But both of these only talk about the hi hand. Don't forget about that lo hand also.

I know this was long winded. But hopefully it helped soeone who is interested in picking up this holdem variation. (or is holdem an Omaha variation?)

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

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fishstick

07-29-2004, 09:13 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

thanks for the tips, i've been thinking about playing some omaha just to break things up.

any recommendations for "the" omaha book?

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

Humphrind

07-29-2004, 09:23 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,887

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

thanks for the tips, i've been thinking about playing some omaha just to break things up.

any recommendations for "the" omaha book?

I've never read an Omaha book. But I'm interested in getting this question answered as well.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

Humphrind

07-30-2004, 01:58 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

I played in my tournament. I'm pretty happy. First time in an Omaha hi lo tourney and I came in 2nd. I ran into this one guy who was either really bad or really good. I can't remember a time he folded pre-flop. He pushed effectivly post-flop and he had a dominating chip lead throughout. No one else came close.

PokerStars Tournament #2202158, Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo
Buy-In: $5.00/$0.50
9 players
Total Prize Pool: $45.00
Tournament started - 2004/07/29 - 20:49:52 (ET)

Dear Humphrind,

You finished the tournament in 2nd place.
A $13.50 award has been credited to your Real Money account.

Congratulations!
Thank you for participating.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

davfagan

07-30-2004, 02:06 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Warren, MI

Posts: 184

Speaking of Hi/Lo games, I decided to try Stud Hi/Lo tonight. Bought into a .25/.50 game for $10...made $7.50 in like 20 minutes. Players were horrible trying to catch things. Great hands with 4 or 5 players almost every time. Granted, I was getting some good hands, but it was just a great alternative.

Tomorrow night I'm going to try and sit down and make a good stand at a table for a couple of hours.

Also: does anyone know of any poker tracking programs for Stud?

"Why does this still seem like gambling to you!?"

Toasty

07-30-2004, 08:54 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

I've been playing a little O8 recently and my starting hands are any pair looking for a set on the flop, two reasonably high suits (like you mentioned). Or a nice low hand like A2 in a multiway pot.

I'm a noob though and still raise occasionally when i have no hand

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

Humphrind

07-31-2004, 01:34 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Toasty

I'm still a noob at this too. I don't want to dish out advice like I know what I'm talking about. But I will say that I think A2 isn't as playable as it seems. A2 has the potential to give you the low hand, but there are a lot of options for it to miss altogether. I would only play it depending on my other cards.

If the flop comes with nothing below and 8, you have no low hand. Paybe your A can play if you have a K or a Q to go with it for a high hand.

If the flop comes and there is an A or a 2 in there, you need to look toward one of your other cards for your low, because your A/2 is dead for the low hand.

Overall with low hands. You can ruin a low hand a million times easier than you can ruin a high hand.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

heatman

07-31-2004, 04:23 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2004

Posts: 312

The best Omaha H/L starting hand is considered to be A2sA3s. Gives you shot at high with the Aces, two flush draws and best low probabilities.

There's a pretty good starting hand discussion at:

http://casinogambling.about.com/cs/p.../omahahilo.htm

He also warns of the danger of A2 by itself.

"Limit poker is a science, but no-limit is an art..."

Humphrind

08-01-2004, 04:24 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I've been putting a lot of thought into the best Omaha Hi Lo starting hand. Logic says that A2s A3s could be very good. But the best hand will depend greatly on the flop. There are a thousand ways AA32 could pan out to give you a great hi hand or low hand. But there are a million ways it could miss to give you a pair of Aces, which is not that great in Omaha.

In the Hi Lo tournament I entered I played against a guy who saw every flop. Then he played accordingly. This was very effective for him and he had a commanding chip lead when we went head to head, he even took me out pretty quickly.

I think he might be onto something. There are a lot of instances where your hole cards will be rubbish. But overall, when you can afford to, you will want to see as many flops as possible. I heard once that the average winning hand in holdem is 2 pair. I would imagine the average winning hand in Omaha is a straight or a flush. This is more of a drawing game. Having AA in your Omaha hand will not give you a 70% chance to win like it does in Holdem. You hand strength depends on the flop, and you should not judge your hand until you see the flop.

Any insight into this?

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

michael1123

08-02-2004, 02:18 AM

#10 (permalink)

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For sure. You know very little about your hand preflop in Omaha high/low.

I do think that AA32 with two suits is probably the best starting hand though, but that doesn't mean you should go all in preflop every time.

fishstick

08-02-2004, 11:07 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humphrind

In the Hi Lo tournament I entered I played against a guy who saw every flop. Then he played accordingly. This was very effective for him and he had a commanding chip lead when we went head to head, he even took me out pretty quickly.

i actually played some omaha high PL ring this weekend, and saw most flops if the preflop raising didn't go above ~ 4xBB (assuming my hole cards were reasonable). i don't know if this is a decent long term strategy, but i think it might have its merits, especially in small money pot limit.

it's an interesting game (i killed it! playing .01/.02 PL, i started at $2 and left the table with $5.45

). it killed me to fold JJJ5 preflop, and i did fold on the turn 3 times because i misread my hand.

i'll be playing more.

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

michael1123

08-02-2004, 11:56 PM

#12 (permalink)

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What's hard is in tournaments, where the blinds are big and your stack isn't.

You basically have to pick a hand and pray that the flop cooperates.

Humphrind

08-02-2004, 11:58 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by michael1123

What's hard is in tournaments, where the blinds are big and your stack isn't.

You basically have to pick a hand and pray that the flop cooperates.

Same thing in holdem. Just play your best to not get into that situation.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

michael1123

08-03-2004, 12:01 AM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Posts: 1,720

Yeah, but a hand like a pocket pair (especially a high one), or even AK, can hold up in Holdem without any help from the board. There's no hole cards holding up in Omaha.

Cue-Ball 66

09-26-2004, 03:43 PM

#15 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 9

Yeah, that's the funny thing about Omaha...there aren't any dominant hands pre-flop. Whereas with Hold 'Em, if you pick up AA, AK, KK, etc. even if you miss your hand...heads-up, or with a narrowed field, your hand still has a chance of holding up...with Omaha Hi for example, AAKK double suited (I'm presuming this is the best hand, I don't really know), is great...until you get a rainbow flop without an Ace or a King, then you have to fold it straight up.

But yeah, basically, the best hands in Hold 'Em can sometimes stand up without help...Omaha hands can't.

About the best starting hands in Hi/Lo...I've just been looking for articles for Omaha, and couldn't find any, but i'd say AA23 does sound like the most powerful hand. With Stud Hi/Lo I reckon 345 or rolled up trips are the best starting hands.

I used to be a predominantely Hold 'Em player...but the more you play these other games, the more addictive they are.

|~|ypermegachi

09-26-2004, 04:05 PM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

www.lowlimitomaha.com is a good place to start.

omaha hilo doesn't have any dominating hands. omaha hi does have some, but a lot fewer. actually i got screwed once going all in preflop (omaha hi). i had AATTds, vs KK27....well according to a hand simulator i was a 3 to 1 favourite to win. i'm surprised...i was expecting more of a 4 to 1 like AA vs KK. of course the guy got a K on the flop and beat me.

omaha is definitely a lot funner than holdem i think....once you're playin a hand. the swings seem to be a lot more however on the bankroll.

TLR

09-27-2004, 08:54 AM

#17 (permalink)

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Posts: 5,007

TLR is an unknown quantity at this point

AA23 double suited is the best starting hand in hi-lo.
Regarding playing A2 chasing the low only - in general it is not worth chasing the low in omaha hi lo, I would only play A2 if either the A is suited with some other card, I have a high pair or the other 2 cards are in the 3-5 range, giving you a decent shut at a straight

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