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NWNewell

08-23-2006, 11:06 PM Post subject: River Wuss

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL

Posts: 283

Hand 1 - $10/$20 Limit Holdem - 4 players

Pre-flop: (4 players) NWNewell is UTG with T

NWNewell raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: T

(5SB, 2 players)
SB checks, NWNewell bets, SB calls.

Turn: K

(3.5BB, 2 players)
SB checks, NWNewell bets, SB calls.

River: J

(5.5BB, 2 players)
SB checks, NWNewell checks.

Hand 2 - $10/$20 Limit Holdem - 6 players

Pre-flop: (6 players) NWNewell is Button with J

3 folds, NWNewell raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 6

(6SB, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, NWNewell bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: 9

(4.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, NWNewell bets, SB calls, BB folds.

River: K

(6.5BB, 2 players)
SB checks, NWNewell checks.

I'm such a river wuss. I do this way too often. I'll play the hand strong until a "not so impressive" river card falls, and I freeze. I even do this with position at times... like in these two perfect examples.

In the first hand I would definitely call if SB bets. But with the river completing a possible one card opened ended straight draw, I was content to check behind. I'm thinking this is way too paranoid.

I very often do what I did in the second hand. With two or more opponents seeing the flop with two flush cards on the board, I'm always afraid of that third flush card on the river.

I'm guessing the check on the second hand is a little more exceptable than the first. But I definitely think I'm lossing too much value playing this way on the river.

I almost think it would be better to always bet/fold instead of checking behind when the river (or board) worries me. I don't know....

Some adivce and guidence be appricated!!

Thanks!!

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bigspenda73

08-27-2006, 06:43 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

Hey bud, even tho I am not a higher stakes limit player I have had the exact same problem in the past as you do now. For myself it was playing scared. When I finally looked into it i realized I was costing myself so much over the long run. The checks you made while in position were pretty weak. It is much easier to check these rivers OOP. On either hand if the river is checked to me I waste no time in firing at them. The best way to deal with this is promise yourself you are going to value bet your hands to the fullest over say your next 10K hands. Look at each instance seperately. Note each time you bet and were folded to. Each time you bet, were called, and won. Each time you bet, were called, and lost. And finally each time you were checked to, bet, and raised. I had to do this to "prove" to myself that I was costing myself money, and it worked. I value bet the end to no other. And hell, if I'm beat and they're willing to just smooth call the end then I feel that was a bet I was supposed to lose anyway.

Just some food for thought
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KY_Ace

12-25-2006, 08:37 AM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Toronto, Canada

Posts: 259

You may feel shitty when you see the flush, bet and get check-raised, like, "dammit I saw it and I still bet FUCK!!, that little bastard thinks he's so smart check-raising me.....", but poker is not about making yourself feel good and being happy and avoding doing things that make you feel bad. POKER IS ABOUT MAKING MONEY. I hate nothing more than getting rivered, value betting and getting check-raised, it feels like I'm being out-smarted by the fish, I can't emphasize eneugh how much I hate this.

I started playing 6-max and I realized that although I hate the feeling of being raised on the river with a passion the most +ve EV line in this situation is bet and fold if they raise. You should also constantly observer players even when you're not in the hand to see if they raise the river with inappropriate hands, notes in caps "CALL RIVER RAISE". You have to admit that with the 1st hand at least betting and calling a check raise would even be better than checking, if you couldn't bring yourself to bet and fold. I've come across alot of players that will call down with any pair if they don't see an ace on the board ( my aggressive play may cause them to do this making it even more +ev for aggressive players to value bet ).

Put yourself in your opponenets shoes, what would they want you to do when they hold a king or 2 pair in hand #1 or a 6 or medium pockets in hand #2? They would want you to check. Don't give them what they want, keep watching them, always look up their hands when they call your value bets on the river, the lower their calling standards the more +ev it is to bet.

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