|
TylerK
|
08-27-2007, 11:13 PM
Post subject: A river fold to make you throw up in your mouth a little (LC
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K , A.
UTG raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.
Flop: (12.40 SB) 8 , 8 , A (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.
Turn: (10.70 BB) 9 (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.
River: (13.70 BB) K (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero folds, UTG calls.
Final Pot: 20.70 BB
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Why is this a hard fold?
My thought process here is "Did I over-look reasonable cause to dump this earlier?"
|
|
|
|
TylerK
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why is this a hard fold?
My thought process here is "Did I over-look reasonable cause to dump this earlier?"
|
It's not, it was just a bummer. I'll edit the subject.
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
I've made three or four folds like this over the past 3 sessions. Been that kind of run of cards.
I get sucked into a capped pot with T9s
Flop KT9, capped, turn is a 5 and I just call, river is a 5 and I LoL-Fold.
Kill pot, capped 3 or 4 way or something with Aces. Flop is blankish with 2 diamonds. Turn is the Ace of Diamonds and I just call the guy obviously on a flush draw. River is a 4rth diamond and I fold to red Kings and J7d.
Probably a bunch more, but those stung...
|
|
|
|
Pelion
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
My thought process here is "Did I over-look reasonable cause to dump this earlier?"
|
Ive been thinking about that too. Can you fold this turn after UTG calls the flop along with you?
|
|
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
|
|
TylerK
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Pelion
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
My thought process here is "Did I over-look reasonable cause to dump this earlier?"
|
Ive been thinking about that too. Can you fold this turn after UTG calls the flop along with you? |
I don't think so. There just aren't any hands other than AA that raise UTG and are beating me (and slowplaying) on the flop, and I know where two of the aces are. It just doesn't play like any hand that makes sense, and at these stakes I tend to take apparent bad play for what it is.
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
What are you putting M1 on?
|
|
|
|
TylerK
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
What are you putting M1 on?
|
I can't put either of these guys on a hand. MP1 looks like Ax when he donks the flop, but looks like an 8 when he 3-bets. Given the PF action, I can't give him enough credit for an 8 that I fold to one bet. With the CC PF, it's gotta be a big ace.
UTG looks like either a KK/QQ who can't let go, an AK/AQ/AJ, or AA, but we are quickly running out of aces for people to have here.
This showdown is AK vs JJ vs Ax so often that I'm basically never folding for one bet. It's a lot easier once it's 2 to me.
I didn't have stats for this hand...would have helped I guess.
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
|
Pelion
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
|
|
I figure UTG has AK and MP1 has an 8 of some sort.
UTG is calling down until he hits 2 pair and doesnt realise that it makes no difference.
Thoughts?
|
|
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
|
|
TylerK
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Pelion
I figure UTG has AK and MP1 has an 8 of some sort.
UTG is calling down until he hits 2 pair and doesnt realise that it makes no difference.
Thoughts?
|
UTG would have bet the flop though?
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
|
DrivingDog
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
|
|
This i's a perfect example of why it's so important to study how your opponents play in many different situations, and not just their VPIP and pfr stats. Too many people neglect that aspect of the game (including me).
Your equity on the flop is between 45-85% against two opponents holding AK- (not A8), 99-KK or a flush draw; 0.7% if either or both opponents have an 8, and of course 0% if someone has AA. But none of that matters if you know MP1 would only 3bet trips or AA here or that UTG would only call two bets with an 8 because you then have an easy fold. Conversely, if you know MP1 would also 3bet Ax, and that UTG would automatically bet out trips on the flop, or if they're both completely unpredictable, then carrying on also an easy decision.
With no reads at all, the chances need to be about 10% that neither opponent has an 8 or AA to make calling the flop raise and a single bet on each of the turn and river to be +EV. So with no reads i'd be hard pressed not to go to the river on this one at 1/2, never mind .25/.50. Once UTG c/r's the river a cutesy 99 and a KK becomes a worry as does an oddly-played flush draw, and once MP1 3bets it's a pretty standard puke-fold.
|
|
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DrivingDog
This i's a perfect example of why it's so important to study how your opponents play in many different situations, and not just their VPIP and pfr stats. Too many people neglect that aspect of the game (including me).
|
Pretty much sums it up. In a live game I might take a -EV peel on the flop and fold a non-Ace turn or just fold outright to the flop 3-bet depending on what I think of MP1. If I think he's pretty aggro then I'm going to tend to show this down and would play it as posted.
|
|
|
|
TylerK
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DrivingDog
This i's a perfect example of why it's so important to study how your opponents play in many different situations, and not just their VPIP and pfr stats. Too many people neglect that aspect of the game (including me).
|
It just doesn't work at micro stakes. For most players you're going to get 50 hands with them and then never see them again. The ones you've got 1000+ hands with are pretty much all the same type of player by definition, since they haven't busted out yet.
I pay attention to the good players, the super aggros, and the 80/2 donkeys, and you can identify all of these in one or two orbits. Other than that, I lump everyone into the same category.
|
|
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
|
|
Pelion
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TylerK
UTG would have bet the flop though?
|
Unless hes checking to the raiser
|
|
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
