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river b/c or c/r-call?

  
 
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asdpikas
Old 09-29-2008, 07:48 PM     Post subject: river b/c or c/r-call? #1 (permalink)  
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villain is loose aggressive/aggressive
river is the tough one, bet call? c/r and call 3bet?
I chose b/c, please explain pros and cons of each...

2/4 Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($120.25)
UTG 1 ($63.88)
CO ($353.24)
BTN ($111.00)
SB ($56.50)
Hero ($100.00)

Pre-flop: (1.5 SB, 6 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls

Flop: (6.5 SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls

Turn: (4.2 BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls

River: (6.2 BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls
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Chopper
Old 09-29-2008, 08:39 PM #2 (permalink)  
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this has to be a factor of my level, but if villain is LAA/maniacal, why arent we 3betting with the nut flush and calling a cap? doesnt this villain overplay weaker flushes/trips as often as he has a boat?

i see 13 combos beating us and there have to be more, from a LAG, that we beat with the nut flush?

that said, i naturally b/c, too. but, i am trying to find hidden (from my eyes) value where i dont naturally see it.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 09-29-2008, 09:08 PM #3 (permalink)  
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well, i said he was LAGG, dunno about maniac, i didnt have stats on him, but he was very active and quite aggro on 2 tables.
"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
 
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Chopper
Old 09-29-2008, 09:21 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdpikas
well, i said he was LAGG, dunno about maniac, i didnt have stats on him, but he was very active and quite aggro on 2 tables.
to me, LAG doesnt usually equate to good. and, in the limit format, i cant see LAG getting enough folds. now, if the guy can read souls, that's one thing. but, i would suspect he'd be playing higher unless he's building a roll.

in other words, i think a "good LAG" is rare. but again, it could just be a factor of my level. remember, i play at least 1-2 levels lower than you do. so, i am certainly not the most qualified to give you advice. hell, i'm prolly not in the vicinity of qualified. this is just an opinion, and its worth about what you paid for it. lol.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 09-29-2008, 10:02 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdpikas
well, i said he was LAGG, dunno about maniac, i didnt have stats on him, but he was very active and quite aggro on 2 tables.
to me, LAG doesnt usually equate to good. and, in the limit format, i cant see LAG getting enough folds. now, if the guy can read souls, that's one thing. but, i would suspect he'd be playing higher unless he's building a roll.

in other words, i think a "good LAG" is rare. but again, it could just be a factor of my level. remember, i play at least 1-2 levels lower than you do. so, i am certainly not the most qualified to give you advice. hell, i'm prolly not in the vicinity of qualified. this is just an opinion, and its worth about what you paid for it. lol.
hahah!

nah, man! i like your response, was just clearing up the read, cause i may not have been clear on that (not having stats and using generalizations).

I like to start a conversation, and get some thoughts flying, and yours are as welcome as anyone elses! You know i'm into getting ideas from different stakes/levels and comparing them, so the fact you play lower (for the moment) is a plus.

On the lag issue, i have seen that poker tracker autorates me as Loose/Aggressive/Aggressive 30/22/2.3

Which means it can be profitable to play a bit looser than most. The question is knowing when and how, which isn't always easy
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asdpikas
Old 09-29-2008, 10:09 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I guess the main difference between me and your main TAG reg at these stakes is i open up a bit more in steal situations and defend my blinds aggressively.

Blind play (attack/defense) is crucial. I learned a lot from the Stox book and some videos and that increased my VPIP/PFR and my winrate considerably.
"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
 
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bigspenda73
Old 09-30-2008, 12:04 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 bet/3bet/call cap
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Chopper
Old 09-30-2008, 02:10 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdpikas
I guess the main difference between me and your main TAG reg at these stakes is i open up a bit more in steal situations and defend my blinds aggressively.

Blind play (attack/defense) is crucial. I learned a lot from the Stox book and some videos and that increased my VPIP/PFR and my winrate considerably.
this is the part that i am focusing on, too. and, the issue is finding all the value out of marginal situations. however, i am still a good bit tighter. i run about 24/16/2 stealing right at 30%. i assume the pfr needs to come up, but i see a lot of limped pots still that i dont mind overlimping, and i see rather loose blinds that i cant make myself open wide enough against...yet.

one HUGE spot is pissing off a LAG by getting sticky in pots. probably the one area i am seeing quick improvement is against maniacs and stations. the fun part is playing them almost oppositely. calling down the maniacs in HU situations. and, value betting the hell out of stations in HU spots. also, a smaller situation is using the LAG's aggressiveness to bump others out with good relative position for the hand you flop.

i dont know if they think yet, but if they do, both players have to be confused as hell when i am a total station sometimes and aggressive as hell at others, but never show down the nuts....just enough to win the pot most of the time.

anyway, its nice to see i'm not alone with the b/3b line.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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dsaxton
Old 09-30-2008, 02:33 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Yeah, definitely 3-bet a very aggressive opponent.
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KoRnholio
Old 09-30-2008, 02:38 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 He could easily be raising the river with AxTc/AxJc here, and won't fold to a 3bet. Even JT with one or two clubs could play it like this.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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DrivingDog
Old 09-30-2008, 06:34 AM #11 (permalink)  
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3betting this river is overdoing it imo. Are you trying to outspew the spewtard?

Even an aggressive opponent can see this board is bad news for Qx. I just b/c the river because he's going to have a FH way more often than Qx when he caps.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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DrivingDog
Old 09-30-2008, 06:37 AM #12 (permalink)  
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p.s. check-call the flop.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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asdpikas
Old 09-30-2008, 10:20 AM #13 (permalink)  
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when choosing to bet, i intended to 3bet but got cold feet. His line doesnt look like a maniac getting out of line. I figured if he had AXc or aflush draw on the flop he probably would have raised being an aggressive player and having position.
"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
 
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