Right to call down? (2 hands)

**Phyl** · 07-01-2005 11:51 PM

These situations are probably simple to you guys but I usually stuggle in them and I'm never sure when to get aggressive. What would you have done differently and more importantly why?

SB I don't have much of a read on but I know that he's tight and fairly ABC, still reasonably aggressive though but not the type to get out of line.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K

, A

.
1 fold, Hero raises, 6 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 7

, 8

, 2

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 8

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

MP2 is slightly too loose and pretty aggressive, doesn't get too out of line preflop though his capping range here is probably a standard JJ-AA AK. FWIW CO SB and BB are rocks or tight TAGs.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7

, 7

.
4 folds, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, MP2 caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 3

, 6

, 9

(2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.70 BB) 5

(2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.70 BB) 2

(2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.70 BB

Thanks in advance.

**poskid_1982** · 07-02-2005 01:31 AM

Without much of a read on the SB i think you can safely muck the turn but a call down isnt terrible...I prefer a raise on the turn which isnt going to cost you more than calling down and may fold your opponent, if raised you can muck.

Hmmm...If thats his capping range...then you're probably licked. I say probably played right. I dont think I could find a fold here without a real read.

**Demiparadigm** · 07-02-2005 01:50 AM

I think in both hands you have a raise or fold decision on the flop.
AKo is in the bottom half of the range of hands that people are betting with on hand one, so I probably fold the flop. You have there are 7SBs in the pot, and it will cost you 5SBs to call to the end. I don't like your odds.
You are getting 8 to 1 to call on the flop, and you have position, which is good for a 6 out draw. You may be dominated however, so I tend to give up the slight +EV to lower variance. Now, If you feel that AKo unimproved is good more than 2 to 1 (33% of the time) then it makes a marginal descision an obvious call, but you need a very good read to go all the way.
I think a raise on the flop is better in hand 2, since you have a pair higher than middle pair, though you have some serious reverse implied odds issues to deal with. You are probably slightly ahead or way behind. I don't like calling down with either hand.

**Demiparadigm** · 07-02-2005 02:01 AM

I prefer a raise on the turn which isnt going to cost you more than calling down and may fold your opponent, if raised you can muck.

I agree that a raise on the turn, and a check behind on the river is better if you plan to call the river unimproved. At 5/10 it is not much better than just calling, and below 5/10, it is almost worthless, since people usually will not fold for one more bet, so your fold equity is gone, and you face the chance of a reraise(which you can't call) when your hand has some marginal showdown value.

**elipsesjeff** · 07-02-2005 05:59 AM

Hand 1: Raise the turn here and he might find a fold, if reraise fold. If called then take your free showdown.

Hand 2: Same as hand 1

**Fnord** · 07-02-2005 10:18 AM

I like both hands. The problem with raising the turn is that you'll be put in a tough spot if he 3-bets.

07-01-2005 11:51 PM #1
Phyl View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2005 Posts 397 Location Texas	Right to call down? (2 hands) These situations are probably simple to you guys but I usually stuggle in them and I'm never sure when to get aggressive. What would you have done differently and more importantly why? SB I don't have much of a read on but I know that he's tight and fairly ABC, still reasonably aggressive though but not the type to get out of line. Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K, A. 1 fold, Hero raises, 6 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls. Flop: (7 SB) 7, 8, 2 (2 players) SB bets, Hero calls. Turn: (4.50 BB) 4 (2 players) SB bets, Hero calls. River: (6.50 BB) 8 (2 players) SB bets, Hero calls. Final Pot: 8.50 BB MP2 is slightly too loose and pretty aggressive, doesn't get too out of line preflop though his capping range here is probably a standard JJ-AA AK. FWIW CO SB and BB are rocks or tight TAGs. Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7, 7. 4 folds, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, MP2 caps, Hero calls. Flop: (9.40 SB) 3, 6, 9 (2 players) MP2 bets, Hero calls. Turn: (5.70 BB) 5 (2 players) MP2 bets, Hero calls. River: (7.70 BB) 2 (2 players) MP2 bets, Hero calls. Final Pot: 9.70 BB Thanks in advance.

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07-02-2005 01:31 AM #2
poskid_1982 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2004 Posts 404 Location Midwest	Without much of a read on the SB i think you can safely muck the turn but a call down isnt terrible...I prefer a raise on the turn which isnt going to cost you more than calling down and may fold your opponent, if raised you can muck. Hmmm...If thats his capping range...then you're probably licked. I say probably played right. I dont think I could find a fold here without a real read.
	Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.
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07-02-2005 01:50 AM #3
Demiparadigm View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2005 Posts 1,963 Location Party 6 max	I think in both hands you have a raise or fold decision on the flop. AKo is in the bottom half of the range of hands that people are betting with on hand one, so I probably fold the flop. You have there are 7SBs in the pot, and it will cost you 5SBs to call to the end. I don't like your odds. You are getting 8 to 1 to call on the flop, and you have position, which is good for a 6 out draw. You may be dominated however, so I tend to give up the slight +EV to lower variance. Now, If you feel that AKo unimproved is good more than 2 to 1 (33% of the time) then it makes a marginal descision an obvious call, but you need a very good read to go all the way. I think a raise on the flop is better in hand 2, since you have a pair higher than middle pair, though you have some serious reverse implied odds issues to deal with. You are probably slightly ahead or way behind. I don't like calling down with either hand.
	To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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07-02-2005 02:01 AM #4
Demiparadigm View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2005 Posts 1,963 Location Party 6 max	I prefer a raise on the turn which isnt going to cost you more than calling down and may fold your opponent, if raised you can muck. I agree that a raise on the turn, and a check behind on the river is better if you plan to call the river unimproved. At 5/10 it is not much better than just calling, and below 5/10, it is almost worthless, since people usually will not fold for one more bet, so your fold equity is gone, and you face the chance of a reraise(which you can't call) when your hand has some marginal showdown value.
	To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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07-02-2005 05:59 AM #5
elipsesjeff View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2004 Posts 4,863 Location Northern Virginia	Hand 1: Raise the turn here and he might find a fold, if reraise fold. If called then take your free showdown. Hand 2: Same as hand 1
	Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
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Right to call down? (2 hands)

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Right to call down? (2 hands)

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07-02-2005 10:18 AM #6
Fnord View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2003 Posts 19,380 Location I'll Do You Like A Truck	I like both hands. The problem with raising the turn is that you'll be put in a tough spot if he 3-bets.
	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
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