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Chopper

02-04-2009, 09:16 PM Post subject: reg game hand..

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

villain is asd. running loosey aggro, but not from UTG to my knowledge...yet.

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8

, 8

UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, UTG caps, Hero calls

Flop: (9.4 SB) 9

, Q

, J

(2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls

Turn: (5.7 BB) 4

(2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls

River: (7.7 BB) 2

(2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls

Total pot: $5.85 (11.7 BB) | Rake: $0.25

i may give him too much credit for folding here, but he is liable to fold better to the scary turn card because he knows i can do some really stupid looking shit with hands that beat one pair. i have him on one pair hands and AK.

oh, and some donkey (lol) at the table told me this was spew into a 30/26/3 player. comments?

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DrivingDog

02-04-2009, 10:05 PM Post subject: Re: reg game hand..

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

, 8

UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, UTG caps, Hero calls

Flop: (9.4 SB) 9

, Q

, J

(2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls

Turn: (5.7 BB) 4

(2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls

River: (7.7 BB) 2

Not sure what Asd's open-raising range UTG is, but mine is about:
55+, A9+, KQ, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs

Once you 3bet him he has to give you credit for a pretty big hand, yet he still caps. Understood, it's Aggro Boy but he's smart-aggro not just randomly-aggro like some guys. At the very worst he should have something like TT+, AQ+, AJs+, KQs. I mean it's pretty unlikely he's capping A9 here.

The flop is QJ9. At this point you need to realise that it hits his entire range, so he's not folding the flop or turn (so it's good you didn't try to raise then). He bets you call. Good. The turn completes the FD. He bets you call. Also good. The river is a blank, and he bets again.

At this point you need to realise that his range is polarised between a few spewy bluffs with AK (which he may or may not try) and a lot of good-to-strong made hands - there's just nothing else he could have with that board. And since the pot is fairly large, he's going to have a hard time folding any made hand. I think the only better hand he might fold there is TT, but again that's a very very small part of his range (and he might just c/c the river with that).

So either he has you beat and you give him 2 more BB or he has AK and he's not paying off a raise anyways.

It's also a pretty implausible bluff. What's he supposed to think you have? If you had JJ+ you would have raised either the flop or the turn. If you had a flush, you'd raise the turn because there's a v. good chance he'll have something to pay you off with or even put in more action with (like JJ).

You could picture him scratching his head when you made that raise because it was like "wtf could he possibly have?...pot's big...oh well...have to call."

I think calling down is clearly the right play for you there.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

socal1111

02-04-2009, 11:35 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2008

Posts: 191

I'm guessing you knew the second you hit the raise btn, it was spewage.

Sounds like a last second, impulse raise... without a whole lot of thought attached?!

"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle

Chopper

02-05-2009, 01:23 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

no, actually there was some thought attached. i figure that he has a one pair hand, or AK. i feel that he is waiting for me to fold. so, my raise is exactly the opposite of what he thinks is coming. i cant win a SD, imo, but i didnt think he'd call with a 9 or J. i also thought it may look like the dumbest slow-rolled straight he's ever seen....that waited for the flush to clear.

i also felt that the raise only had to work 1 in 10 times to win a pot off him, and i feel he can lay down some decent hands there. i think that when a pot gets that big, and you know you arent winning a SD, you have to fight for it by firing your hail mary in a spot that will really have them scratching their head. and, i accomplished that. i gave myself my best chance of winning the pot, imo. he also three barreled me twice in that session HU.

you call it spew, i call it a hand i carried too far and tried my best to make a better hand fold.....however unlikely. i am surprised you thought the turn call was good. i felt i was well behind at that point, but couldnt find a fold just yet, but should have. a turned flush with a flopped straight up in a capped pot with overpairs and AQ likely? not good for 88.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

socal1111

02-05-2009, 03:48 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2008

Posts: 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

i am surprised you thought the turn call was good.

I actually wasn't focused on the turn too much here, as I was caught waay off guard when you raised river.

You're correct, tho... turn call no good.

Love to see how much thought you put into the river play.

"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle

DrivingDog

02-05-2009, 07:54 AM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

The turn call IS good because he's probably barrelling close to 100% of his range.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,552 games 0.005 secs 510,400 games/sec

Board: Qc Jc 9s 4c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.804% 24.80% 00.00% 633 0.00 { 8h8s }
Hand 1: 75.196% 75.20% 00.00% 1919 0.00 { TT+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ }

Same goes for the river if you think he's going to bet AK.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

58 games 0.005 secs 11,600 games/sec

Board: Qc Jc 9s 4c 2s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 25.862% 25.86% 00.00% 15 0.00 { 8h8s }
Hand 1: 74.138% 74.14% 00.00% 43 0.00 { TT+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+ }

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

asdpikas

02-05-2009, 08:05 AM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 1,056

you did make me think and hit the time bank...

only i couldnt figure what the heck u were doing, and in a big pot, that means LOOK HIM UP to me.
I mean, a straight or set would've raised the turn to charge lone clubs or straight draws. You could've sloplayed a flush, but then, i'll pay u off, no biggie.

I did make some nasty folds against dog, like 3 times i had JJ and there were 2overs or really scary boards, but i had AQ here, and was only really beat by the sloplayed flush, given the action. IMO

"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.

Chopper

02-05-2009, 02:23 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdpikas

you did make me think and hit the time bank...

only i couldnt figure what the heck u were doing, and in a big pot, that means LOOK HIM UP to me.

i KNEW this, too. i do the same. but, there was a small chance you would be all "deer in the headlights" and freeze up....possibly just fold. again, 10% chance makes it work.

i also wanted to see how ballsy you really are in those spots, too. i partly wanted to see if you would 3bet me with less than a straight. (i have been reading a lot about max value and i thought that was an opportunity to see what you would do, since you play a couple levels higher than i do.)

and, i thought if it didnt work, metagame wise, there may be some future value in that 1 BB when i do something like that down the road, but wake up with the hand. again, not saying i am right, and not defending myself.....just speaking of the thought process and why i dont classify it as spewage. to me, spew is reckless, thoughtless firing of bets/raises....this had some thought to it.

the best thing you said to me, dog, was "you are so confusing, i dont know where you are in a hand." granted, that wasnt exactly a compliment that i was playing particularly well. but, it was a hint that you dont have great reads on me yet.

these reg games are fun, for me, because it puts me against tougher competition than i usually face, allows me to try and become more solid, teach myself that you guys are NOT just splashing chips because "we know each other," and prove to myself that i may not be dead money a couple levels up.

i would like to move up, but am struggling with 50/1 and 1/2....and am beginning to see why. so, this is all a positive....for me. and, for that, i thank you guys for playing and am glad you are having fun with it.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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