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Gatlin Dan

01-21-2005, 07:46 AM Post subject: Recommendations for playing these.

#1 (permalink)

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I am having trouble playing certain hands and would like recommendations on how to play these.

The hands I am wondering about are A10o, A10s, and K10s.

Playing these marginal hands is a leak in my game that i need help plugging.

What is the correct way to play these in E,M, and LP's?
Are any of these worth playing against a raise?
Should I be inclined to play these differently with a lot of limpers as oppossed to just a couple?

Thanks guys.

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Fnord

01-21-2005, 09:39 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

ATo

Never call a raise, only open raise. 3-bet a very loose raiser from MP and on.

EP: Muck
MP & LP: Open raise, limp behind multiple limpers, raise behind a loose limper (preferably who raises a lot too) and muck behind tight players that don't raise a lot.
BB: Call a loose raise, 3-bet a steal, fold to a tight raise

ATs

Same as ATo except:

Open-raise any position
You can cold call behind other cold calls.
Raise behind mulitple limpers (suitedness gives you great equity in a multi-pot)
Be more inclined to call a raise with it from the BB

KTs

Cold call only behind a lot of cold callers.

EP: Limp
MP & LP: Open raise, raise behind multiple limpers, raise behind a loose limper (preferably who raises a lot too) and limp behind tight players that don't raise a lot.
BB: Call a loose raise, 3-bet a steal, call all but the tightest raises, especially if it's multi-way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Gatlin Dan

01-21-2005, 10:32 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Great. Thanks Fnord.

Gatlin Dan

01-22-2005, 06:10 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Can KTo be played from the SB when there is no raise? Should I raise KTs if there is none when in the SB?

Are there any pocket pairs that I should fold preflop if raised after me or should I always see the flop?

What pocket pairs should I cold call with if any? Does this change in if I have called the blind but it's two back to me? I imagine the old addage that once the money is in the pot, it is no longer your money would apply here?
What pocket pairs can be 3-bet?

Fnord

01-22-2005, 06:25 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Keep in mind that my game these days is a lot about playing people and situations as much as cards...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

Can KTo be played from the SB when there is no raise?

In B&M games I've learned the hard way to avoid KTo, QTo and JTo like the plague because the other players like to limp big broadway cards so it's easier to trap yourself with a second best hand that I'm just not good enough yet to get away from. I also feel that even if they are slightly +EV for me, it might be a rare spot where I can drop some variance. Online, I am selective about playing them, but find myself playing them less and less often. In many of the spots I play them in I just feel I need a hand and am not being too picky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

Should I raise KTs if there is none when in the SB?

It's worth an out of position steal. It's also worth raising after a lot of limpers. Otherwise, just complete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

Are there any pocket pairs that I should fold preflop if raised after me or should I always see the flop?

Hard to go too wrong seeing a flop once you've put money in the middle. Pocket pairs are very forgiving in these situations because it's rare you'll end up playing off with a second best hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

What pocket pairs should I cold call with if any? Does this change in if I have called the blind but it's two back to me? I imagine the old addage that once the money is in the pot, it is no longer your money would apply here?

66+ if therer are already lots of other players in the pot. Although sometimes I'll get a little silly with 99...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

What pocket pairs can be 3-bet?

77+ depending on the raiser. I almost never muck JJ, but am making a routine fold of TT to well established tight raisers comming in from MP/EP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

nomdeplume

01-22-2005, 08:39 AM

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Dan, it's difficult to answer this question without knowing the limits you play. Are the tables you play loose or tight?

Gatlin Dan

01-22-2005, 08:58 AM

#7 (permalink)

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I'm still playing micro limits in general. I play at stars so the games are somewhat tighter here but overall are still very loose. I commonly play at .25/.50 but almost have the bankroll requirements to move to .50/1.00. I'm not to concerned about playing tighter than what I have to at these lower limits. I'm more concerned about playing "correctly." I'm consistantly increasing the bankroll and know the tight/correct play will serve me well as I move up in limits.

nomdeplume

01-22-2005, 08:58 PM

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Dan, if you're playing loose micro-limit tables then I agree with almost everything Fnord said.

Personally I wouldn't three bet with any pair less than TT, unless you're trying to isolate a weak raiser. You're unlikely to be able to do this in very loose games.

I'd also call a raise with any pair in any position provided you're getting 60-80% on average seeing the flop. The implied odds if you flop a set are enormous in games like this, particularly if the game is somewhat aggressive.

Gatlin Dan

01-23-2005, 06:42 AM

#9 (permalink)

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I have found in this limit that raising with middle pairs is largely ineffective. I don't like to 3 bet with anything lower than JJ. I am very reluctant to not call a raise with any pair. With so many callers and cold callers, the pot is often very large and correct or not, I like to see the flop if it is only one back to me. The only occassional exception is PP of 2s or 3s. I will usually dump anything smaller than 6s if I have to call more than one to see the flop.

Does this seem sound?

nomdeplume

01-23-2005, 09:54 AM

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Join Date: Jan 2005

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The only time I'd raise with middle pairs is if I was first in, middle or late position and I thought I could buy the button. In this case I'd raise 88 or higher. In the games you're describing this is unlikely to happen, in which case just call and look for a set on the flop. Against straightforward players, straightforward play is often best.

If you call and someone raises once behind you, you should almost always call whatever hand you have. If it's not strong enough to call a single raise then you shouldn't be playing it. That's why you need to play very tightly in EP. At very loose tables PPs (even small ones) count as potentially strong hands, since if you flop a set you'll probably win a huge pot. So limp in with any PP in any position provided the game is very loose.

If it's raised and reraised in front I'd cold call with TT and JJ and reraise with QQ, KK or AA, but only in loose games. In tougher games I'd fold TT and JJ too.

If you limp and it's raised and reraised behind you, you need to look at the pot odds you're getting before you call with a small PP. You're about 8:1 against flopping a set, so if you're getting 8:1 from the pot you can call and hope to flop a set. This requires a pretty huge pot. Bear in mind that if someone caps behind you this lowers your pot odds, so it's better to call if you're closing the betting or you can be pretty sure you won't be raised behind.

Don't worry too much about your preflop play. Just play very tightly in EP and don't call genuine raises with dominated offsuit hands. Spend most of your time improving your post-flop play, this is where you make most of your money.

Gatlin Dan

01-23-2005, 12:34 PM

#11 (permalink)

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That's pretty much how I play them. I'm very cautious about calling raises with anything except premium pairs, and the very best non paired hands. I'll usually fold anything worse than AQ to a raise. I like to be the one raising, not the one calling.

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