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NichaelBluth
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12-15-2008, 09:49 PM
Post subject: Reckless Spew?
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#1 (permalink)
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One Pair
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 20
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I seem to get into this situation many times, without great reads as I'm usually 4 tabling: (more thoughts after)
*********** # 5 **************
PokerStars Game #22946762592: Hold'em Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/12/15 15:46:01 ET
Table 'Pisces' 10-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: Truchonazo ($24.10 in chips)
Seat 3: Youlius ($6.55 in chips)
Seat 4: saccamano ($24.80 in chips)
Seat 5: jennings76 ($13.50 in chips)
Seat 6: CF10 ($23.60 in chips)
Seat 7: NichaelBluth ($21.65 in chips)
Seat 8: belomor3k ($12.90 in chips)
Seat 9: cara piña ($14.75 in chips)
Seat 10: twofaces1982 ($15.75 in chips)
Youlius: posts small blind $0.25
saccamano: posts big blind $0.50
Rooz'nDaal: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NichaelBluth [Ah Qh]
jennings76: folds
CF10: folds
NichaelBluth: raises $0.50 to $1
belomor3k: folds
cara piña: folds
twofaces1982: folds
Truchonazo: calls $1
Youlius: folds
saccamano: folds
*** FLOP *** [7h 3c Js]
NichaelBluth: bets $0.50
Truchonazo: calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [7h 3c Js] [Jd]
NichaelBluth: bets $1
Truchonazo: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [7h 3c Js Jd] [Qc]
NichaelBluth: bets $1
Truchonazo: calls $1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
NichaelBluth: shows [Ah Qh] (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
Truchonazo: mucks hand
NichaelBluth collected $7.40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $7.75 | Rake $0.35
Board [7h 3c Js Jd Qc]
Seat 2: Truchonazo (button) mucked [8c 8h]
Seat 3: Youlius (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: saccamano (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: jennings76 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: CF10 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: NichaelBluth showed [Ah Qh] and won ($7.40) with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 8: belomor3k folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: cara piña folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: twofaces1982 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
So am I spewing here and got lucky to catch? And what is the play out of position if the river comes the 2c?
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flopmonkey
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 85
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I ran your hand through the Hand Converter here at FTR, makes it much easier to read. Its on the left under Poker Tools.
FTR Hand History Converter Output (intended for copying and pasting into poker forums!):
PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A , Q
2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, 2 folds
Flop: (5.5 SB) 7 , 3 , J (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls
Turn: (3.75 BB) J (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls
River: (5.75 BB) Q (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls
Total pot: $7.75 (7.75 BB) | Rake: $0.35
Looks like spewing to me. Your basically playing 2 overcards...And betting like a maniac. Yes your lucky. But HU maybe its ok to play like this.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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not spewing....standard. and, if 2c falls, c/f or c/c depending on read of villain.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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flopmonkey
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 85
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he don't even have a draw on the flop, how can this be standard?
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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check your pm's. and, he DOES have a draw with potential. 6 outs to two overcards. thats a draw.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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flopmonkey
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 85
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oh i see that now. my bad! plus the J could have been a heart.
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Lance
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 210
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yes, that's it, the good example.
This is an easier spot, but what about when the turn card is Kc
Have you bet the turn or c/f ?
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asdpikas
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,056
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lance
yes, that's it, the good example.
This is an easier spot, but what about when the turn card is Kc
Have you bet the turn or c/f ?
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I'd c/c on a K turn, may c/r if villain is weak and spewy
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lance
yes, that's it, the good example.
This is an easier spot, but what about when the turn card is Kc
Have you bet the turn or c/f ?
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the more i think about this spot, the more i hate it. i dont know the clear way to play w/o a read on villain.
we can lead again and risk being raised by an aggro villain or the K, but possibly win the pot because villain is just as scared of the K as we are. we can c/c and open his range, but Ahi isnt the hand to be snapping bluffs with on this board, imo. if we c/c, we keep the pot to one bet and hope our A is good or we spike a T and can c/r or b/3b a river. (but thats a pretty foolish chase if that is our only basis for c/c'ing the turn.) we can c/f and be folding the best hand often enough, too.
lots of options, but i dont like any of them.
ahhh, the beauty of position. villain definitely has the upper hand if the turn is a K. but, with reads, this hand would be easier to play.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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asdpikas
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,056
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lance
yes, that's it, the good example.
This is an easier spot, but what about when the turn card is Kc
Have you bet the turn or c/f ?
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i will only c/c if villain has been aggressive or bluffy. i am not getting even 4:1 on my overcards, and the A is likely the only good one. so, i need to feel i have some shot at being best here. plus, all players like to play AX type hands here, and an A falling could really screw me. most likely, i c/f.
again, though, if villain is bluffy, i am not folding Ahi in a HU pot with him pretty much no matter what falls. i'm just not bloating a pot with Ahi, either.
this is likely a factor of stakes between me and asdpikas. he plays higher than i do.....where the play may not be so straightforward in regards to villains' aggression.
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u pick up a gutshot w a K falling on turn
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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lol. you quoted my first response WHILE i was editing it. my answer has changed because i didnt like where my thoughts were headed in your quote.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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flopmonkey
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 85
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I know im new, but I wouldnt have the nerve to play overcards, especially this strongly. I try to be very conservative with my semi bluffs.
Heres what Lee Jones says about playing overcards...
"Many poker experts say that you can bet or call (with overcards), however it takes a lot of experience and knowledge to know when you can play with just overcards."....
"A bet with two overcards is usually a semi bluff...Most low limit games are sufficiently loose and passive, that a semibluff wont work, so betting is not correct."....
"Many winning holdem players would probably make more money if they threw away overcards they're playing."....
But Jones also gave exceptions to that rule:
1. you are last to act. Nobody can raise behind you. and
2. you are calling one bet. and
3. you have AKs or KQ, and
4. You make top pair or an eight or nine-out draw on the turn.
So my question would be Is it worth the trouble to play overcards, in low limit, especially for a beginner?
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeeJones
"Many winning holdem players would probably make more money if they threw away overcards they're playing."....
But Jones also gave exceptions to that rule:
1. you are last to act. Nobody can raise behind you. and
2. you are calling one bet. and
3. you have AKs or KQ, and
4. You make top pair or an eight or nine-out draw on the turn.
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well, at least he wasnt ambiguous.
so, other than the 20 out of 25 times i should be playing overcards, i should fold them?
thanks, Lee, for that.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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I think it's close on the turn.
I mean who knows what these guys are calling with? You can't make a logical decision against illogical opponents. If he's bad enough to cold call with 88 he's probably bad enough to call the flop with complete air.
OTOH, his range is a bit skewed towards pps because the board has absolutely no draws.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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