Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

All Other (Limit) Poker

  > 

reckless calling down?

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Chopper
Old 01-31-2009, 06:19 PM     Post subject: reckless calling down? #1 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
i faced a colossal maniac yesterday. the kind that MURDERS you when he catches even bottom pair. the kind that is on some drunken rampage and runs 90/70/2.5-ish stats and either has a winrate of 75+/100 or -75/100. its feast or famine. he can bluff atc at anytime for any reason.....and does. you never know where you are in a hand. you never know if he outdrew you on a river when you are in a 3bet pot w/ AX and he spewtarded the whole way down oop. that guy.

i will post a few hands, but my gameplan was to isolate him everytime i picked up a hand in my normal playing range and bet the goods, but call down w/ sd value...no matter the board and no matter the action. if anyone else was in the hand, i had to dramatically consider re-evaluating this gameplan.

high variance? sure. but, is it even correct? these guys can dump some serious cash off on a table, but they can also swallow your bankroll like they are bonging beer.

1st...how is the gameplan, given the opponent? 3betting my playing range to isolate is well ahead of top 1/3 of his raising range.

2nd...the HH's. are they brutal? or high variance behind a decent gameplan?

1)PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6, A
1 fold, MP calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, MP calls

Flop: (5.5 SB) 7, 5, 7 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets, MP calls

Turn: (3.75 BB) 10 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets, MP raises, Hero calls

River: (7.75 BB) 7 (2 players)
MP bets, Hero calls

Total pot: $9.75 (9.75 BB) | Rake: $0.45

villain had TXo.

2)PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, K
3 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls

Flop: (7 SB) 4, 2, 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls

Turn: (4.5 BB) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls

River: (6.5 BB) 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls

Total pot: $8.50 (8.5 BB) | Rake: $0.40

Results in white below:
Button had 2, K (two pair, tens and twos).
Hero mucked Q, K (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Button won $8.10

3)PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, 4
UTG calls, 3 folds, SB calls, Hero checks

Flop: (3 SB) 5, 3, 2 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG calls

Turn: (3 BB) 9 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls

River: (7 BB) 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $7 (7 BB) | Rake: $0.30

Results in white below:
SB had 3, 4 (one pair, threes).
Hero mucked J, 4 (high card, Jack).
Outcome: SB won $6.70
prolly should have fired river?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Chopper
Old 01-31-2009, 06:20 PM #2 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
i got slaughtered and left shortly, as i felt the tilt starting to come on....if it wasnt already there. but, the damage had been done.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
sinky
Old 02-04-2009, 11:37 AM #3 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 295
sinky
Why did you post the results ? That's not like you.

Hand 1 - I would fold preflop. (Unless BU and blinds are rocks). On the turn if he had Flush or Straight draws then the T doesn't really help many hands. If you are determined to showdown every A high then given his aggression factor I would check behind on the turn and call the river. Given his check raise on the turn you are now getting less than 4/1 to call the turn and river. Is that enough ?

Hand 2 - What is your reasoning for the check on the flop after 3 betting pf ?

Hand 3 - Seems a bit back to front. Nice flop, loads of equity, just raise the flop for value. Has anything really changed on the turn ?
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 02-04-2009, 01:21 PM #4 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinky
Why did you post the results ? That's not like you.

Hand 1 - I would fold preflop. (Unless BU and blinds are rocks). On the turn if he had Flush or Straight draws then the T doesn't really help many hands. If you are determined to showdown every A high then given his aggression factor I would check behind on the turn and call the river. Given his check raise on the turn you are now getting less than 4/1 to call the turn and river. Is that enough ?

Hand 2 - What is your reasoning for the check on the flop after 3 betting pf ?

Hand 3 - Seems a bit back to front. Nice flop, loads of equity, just raise the flop for value. Has anything really changed on the turn ?
i posted results because i didnt think it mattered if you saw what i eventually saw here. i felt like these hands were played poorly w/ or w/o the results. i also wanted to show the rags this guy was playing. and, looking through them a second time, i wasnt involved in his stupidest hands that helped me form the image of him that i typed in OP.

at any rate, i doubt i can defend my donkeyness, but i will answer your comments.

1- i raise down to A5o from CO when folded to. so, here, because he limped, i raise to isolate with my BTN range....straight out of Stox's book. his c/r didnt scare me because he will do it as a total bluff, too. so i felt he either hit something or has air, and i will never know. so, i continue to call off my Ahi in position and HU.

2- donking this flop gets raised by all sorts of crap from him. some legit, some not. i just check to keep it one bet and take the turn. pot is sufficiently big, imo, to warrant chasing those overs with 6 likely clean outs. discount an out for the FD, but no more because he may do this with 55 or AXo-no spade.

3- i didnt raise flop because i didnt want to shut UTG out with a nice combo and take on the maniac w/o a buffer when holding Jhi that i have to play fast because of the draw....but in the end, its likely to be still Jhi. i dont know why i thought i could get both to fold on that turn....that was plain stupid. and, because of that, i likely should have fired the river raise since i cant win a SD, but i didnt because i felt this guy would call with a duece. turns out he didnt have much more.

like i said, these hands sucked, but that was my reasoning. i dont think its right, but i also dont think its too far off being correct. i just got killed by rags and a bit of a skewed technique.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
DrivingDog
Old 02-04-2009, 05:38 PM #5 (permalink)  
DrivingDog's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
DrivingDog
Hand 1, i like a check behind on the turn against a guy who's going to bluff a lot after you check the turn (a lot as in almost 100%). You keep the pot small and avoid getting c/r'd by better hands. If he's super aggro and will c/r bluff the turn with worse than A high >50% of the time then obv. you should bet. But those players are very rare in my experience.

Hand 2, lead the flop. It probably missed him and he can't be sure it missed you. If he calls or raises the flop and the turn doesn't help you, you're kinda stuck. You can call down with K high I guess but i doubt it's a winning play. In the end you've pretty much got nothing.

Hand 3, I don't see why you're raising the turn. He's betting and calling with any pair so why knock out the guy behind you when SB will fire the river again regardless and you can raise if you hit? Note that even a J counts as a 'hit'.

As played, on the river when he checks to you the plan is to bet and hope he has a better hand like K4, Q4, a FD or a small pair that will fold. He doesn't have to fold very often to make it the right play.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
Reply With Quote
socal1111
Old 02-04-2009, 11:13 PM #6 (permalink)  
Straight

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 191
socal1111
1) Standard preflop. I'd check turn, inducing river bluff, calling ANY river.

2) Betting flop, calling down UI

3) Lead flop/cap. Tough river decision UI

Against these guys, I now tend to allow them to put in most of the action when I miss, but punish, relentlessly when I've got even a marginal piece. Like you said, with SD value, allow him to spew chips.

I used to hate these players, but my mindset eventually changed as I grew to understand long term theory.
"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
 
Reply With Quote
Chopper
Old 02-05-2009, 01:30 AM #7 (permalink)  
Chopper's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by socal1111
1) Standard preflop. I'd check turn, inducing river bluff, calling ANY river.

2) Betting flop, calling down UI

3) Lead flop/cap. Tough river decision UI

Against these guys, I now tend to allow them to put in most of the action when I miss, but punish, relentlessly when I've got even a marginal piece. Like you said, with SD value, allow him to spew chips.

I used to hate these players, but my mindset eventually changed as I grew to understand long term theory.
i am the same way. i used to hate them, but now they make up a good deal of my profit. however, i hate it when they catch the weakest parts of their rags....they destroy me when they catch a four with 74s and calling a raise.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:56 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.