www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Razz $16 Sng: Maximizing value from the nuts

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

TLR

01-21-2010, 04:01 PM Post subject: Razz $16 Sng: Maximizing value from the nuts

#1 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 5,007

TLR is an unknown quantity at this point

Tournament - HORSE - Razz - Level III (40/80), Ante 8, Bring-In 12 (converter)

Seat 1: 2,144
Seat 2: 1,879
Seat 3: 1,727
Seat 4: 839
Seat 5: 739
Seat 6: 1,394
Seat 7: 1,650
Hero: 1,628

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T

___folds
Seat 2: xx xx A

___raises___raises
Seat 3: xx xx 9

___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8

___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 2

___folds
Seat 6: xx xx A

___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx J

___brings-in___folds
Hero: 4

___raises___raises___calls

4th Street - (13.90 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx A

___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A

___raises___calls
Hero: 4

___bets___raises

5th Street - (11.45 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A

___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A

___bets
Hero: 4

___checks___calls

6th Street - (14.45 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A

___calls
Seat 6: xx xx A

___calls
Hero: 4

___bets

River - (17.45 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A

xx___folds
Seat 6: xx xx A

xx___folds
Hero: 4

___bets

Total pot: (17.45 BB)

What is the best play to maximize value on this hand ?

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

lNormajean

01-22-2010, 02:51 AM

#2 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 103

i check raise 5th with 2 villians. altho nothing wrong with the way u played it.

other than that u did all u could. maybe check raise river for added effect as seat 6 will probably bet his 7s

TLR

01-22-2010, 03:31 PM

#3 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 5,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by lNormajean

i check raise 5th with 2 villians. altho nothing wrong with the way u played it.

other than that u did all u could. maybe check raise river for added effect as seat 6 will probably bet his 7s

Not sure what the correct play on 5th is, check-raising will most likely get seat 2 to fold, but I be raised again by the original raiser

dsaxton

01-26-2010, 02:59 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Arlington, VA

Posts: 2,667

Just call 3rd street when the other guy reraises. You're at best only a small favorite (see simulations below), and you don't want to define your downcards. Better is to call and put the thought in the other guy's head that you might have a bad card in the hole.

Just lead / jam every street once you make your wheel.

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 296667 59.33 202678 40.54 655 0.13 0.594
As 8s 7s 202678 40.54 296667 59.33 655 0.13 0.406

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 252938 50.59 246052 49.21 1010 0.20 0.507
As 6s 2s 246052 49.21 252938 50.59 1010 0.20 0.493

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 240516 48.10 255368 51.07 4116 0.82 0.485
As 5s 2s 255368 51.07 240516 48.10 4116 0.82 0.515

TLR

01-26-2010, 03:07 PM

#5 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 5,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Just call 3rd street when the other guy reraises. You're at best only a small favorite (see simulations below), and you don't want to define your downcards. Better is to call and put the thought in the other guy's head that you might have a bad card in the hole.

Check-raising 5th is horrendous, and so is check-calling. Just jam every street once you make your wheel.

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 296667 59.33 202678 40.54 655 0.13 0.594
As 8s 7s 202678 40.54 296667 59.33 655 0.13 0.406

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 252938 50.59 246052 49.21 1010 0.20 0.507
As 6s 2s 246052 49.21 252938 50.59 1010 0.20 0.493

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 240516 48.10 255368 51.07 4116 0.82 0.485
As 5s 2s 255368 51.07 240516 48.10 4116 0.82 0.515

You are ignoring the 3rd player (seat 6) both in the simulation and in the decision on 3rd, why is that ?

dsaxton

01-27-2010, 05:28 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Arlington, VA

Posts: 2,667

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLR

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Just call 3rd street when the other guy reraises. You're at best only a small favorite (see simulations below), and you don't want to define your downcards. Better is to call and put the thought in the other guy's head that you might have a bad card in the hole.

Check-raising 5th is horrendous, and so is check-calling. Just jam every street once you make your wheel.

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 296667 59.33 202678 40.54 655 0.13 0.594
As 8s 7s 202678 40.54 296667 59.33 655 0.13 0.406

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 252938 50.59 246052 49.21 1010 0.20 0.507
As 6s 2s 246052 49.21 252938 50.59 1010 0.20 0.493

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 240516 48.10 255368 51.07 4116 0.82 0.485
As 5s 2s 255368 51.07 240516 48.10 4116 0.82 0.515

You are ignoring the 3rd player (seat 6) both in the simulation and in the decision on 3rd, why is that ?

Nevermind. I forgot you don't take advice.

TLR

01-27-2010, 05:36 AM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 5,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLR

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Just call 3rd street when the other guy reraises. You're at best only a small favorite (see simulations below), and you don't want to define your downcards. Better is to call and put the thought in the other guy's head that you might have a bad card in the hole.

Check-raising 5th is horrendous, and so is check-calling. Just jam every street once you make your wheel.

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 296667 59.33 202678 40.54 655 0.13 0.594
As 8s 7s 202678 40.54 296667 59.33 655 0.13 0.406

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 252938 50.59 246052 49.21 1010 0.20 0.507
As 6s 2s 246052 49.21 252938 50.59 1010 0.20 0.493

Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
4s 5c Ah 240516 48.10 255368 51.07 4116 0.82 0.485
As 5s 2s 255368 51.07 240516 48.10 4116 0.82 0.515

You are ignoring the 3rd player (seat 6) both in the simulation and in the decision on 3rd, why is that ?

Nevermind. I forgot you don't take advice.

If I did not want advice I would not have posted the hand, if my response came out as offensive I am sorry, that was not my intention at all.

In all the hand simulations (and I appreciate the time you took to do them), you did not consider the 3rd player who was in the pot, and I was wandering if it should not have factored into our decision of raising vs calling at 3rd street. with only one opponent in the pot I agree with your assessment that it is better to call then to raise and conceal the strength of our hand, but the 3rd player in the pot makes the decision more complex, on one hand raising may get us to play the pot heads up (which I think is better for us then playing 3 way) but on the other hand if both of them come along it builts a pot that is much harder to get away from if it develops into mid strength hand

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:54 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

All Other (Limit) Poker

Razz $16 Sng: Maximizing value from the nuts

Play for FREE and practice your game at...