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dwags222
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06-26-2006, 07:50 PM
Post subject: the rampage v. deepstack plo
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gaylord, MI
Posts: 151
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ok, i don't know if any of you read 2+2 online mag, but they had an article this month about rampaging in plo where basically you just buy in for a small stack and go all in as soon as you hit a monster or a monster draw...and basically you are pretty guaranteed to get calls as a short stack. i am having great success w/ this so far and i pretty much have no experience playinig plo high. so lets say i triple up and suddenly i have a deeper stack, is it still a good strategy to sit around nut camping and pushing all in. as far as i can tell this is pretty much all plo is about...sitting around waiting for the nuts and getting all your money in...is this accurate for 100 plo and under???
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Like all poker, it's about getting into +EV situations. PLO's nature has a little more gambol than most, but that doesn't necessarily mean nut camping is best. Raising to thin the field preflop, continuation bets and position/implied odds are fundamental to Omaha.
I've never really experimented with a short stack in PLO, but I'd suspect you'd be better off learning the game the way it's meant to be played. Let's say you take your 20BB stack and raise preflop with AAKK double suited. The flop comes 78T two of a different suit. Now what do you do with your last 17BB into a pot of say 12 BBs? Any bet you make will commit you, and though you're a short stack, a call against you likely means you're toast.
This highlights the other drawback to a short stack: People will call with more marginal (but not horrible hands) simply because they can do so without the threat of facing a big bet on the turn unimproved. Essentially you're laying them 2-1 (if a pot-sized flop bet puts you all in) every hand you commit yourself. Sure you'll be on top sometimes, but at those odds, many hands are correct to call you.
Here's an example from Pokertips.org:
Board: 4c 9d 2h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Qs Ad Kd 485 59.15 335 40.85 0 0.00 0.591
9s 7c 8d 5d 335 40.85 485 59.15 0 0.00 0.409
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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Ugh.
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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SonOfAkira
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 147
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ihategnomes
Ugh.
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I agree, a word says, um... a thousand words, or something like that.
Shortstacking works in texas HE (and works well if you know what you're doing, search 2+2 for 'pinkprincess') for the reasons you mentioned, though in PLO you simply don't have the stack to price anybody out in such a draw heavy game, as kornholio said.
This is one of my favourite pieces of trash talk (I talk trash in absolutely everything) when a shortstacker complains about me or another 'sucking out', something to the effect of 'buy in full and maybe you can price somebody out next time' followed by the requisite 'donkey' and perhaps 'you suck at cards and life' and maybe even a 'i hate you, everybody you know, everything you believe in' if i'm feeling particularly jazzy.
Basically, IMHO, even if you find yourself in +EV situations every time, you're still not maximizing EV with a shortstack. Plus, if your playing against donkeys who don't know who to pay against shortstacks and are giving you chunks, they probably can't play too well to begin with, and you're losing value playing short. Look at it this way, there is one big difference between throwing your whole 25BB stack in on the flop and letting your opponent see two cards, and throwing out a 25BB pot bet, then hammering again when a brick hits on the turn.
Do you see why? 
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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I was extremely hammered last night and typed out a big response. Then I somehow managed to close the windows for submitting. Ugh was the only thing that made it out after that. As soon as the cobwebs clear I will type something of value.
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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SonOfAkira
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 147
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ihategnomes
I was extremely hammered last night and typed out a big response. Then I somehow managed to close the windows for submitting. Ugh was the only thing that made it out after that. As soon as the cobwebs clear I will type something of value.
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Weird, I only manage to type long things when I AM hammered. I wasn't criticizing though, 'ugh' really does say alot about it.
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WhooFleuryScores
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 918
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I recommend playing with a full stack at all times and learning the game properly-don't do the Chris Fergusan turn $1 into $10K trick here.
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