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raising the turn correct here instead of flop ??

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pokerlearner

03-08-2006, 05:46 PM Post subject: raising the turn correct here instead of flop ??

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

Had a horrendous session at $4-$8 B&M. I need some advice with this hand.
I wont try to be results oriented

Just advise me whether I did all i possibly could to protect my hand or if i played some street horribly.

Table is very loose and passive. but if there is a raise, someone usually threebets, and then invariably some other guy will cap. then they check the flop !!!!

Hero is Kh-Jh in UTG.
Preflop:

Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Button raises, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls

Flop: Ks-8c-9h
I liked the flop and intended to checkraise the turn to make 3 callers call 2 cold. In this big pot, raising the flop wont protect my hand.
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, bb folds, Hero calls, UtG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: Ks-8c-9h-10c
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, UtG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

turn checkraise didnt work in kicking anyone out of the pot !!

River: Ks-8c-9h-10c-2c
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, MP3 folds,Button folds, Hero calls

UTG+1 shows Jc-5c.

Questions;

1) Do you raise preflop in such a table.

2) Do you raise the flop. My line in not raising the flop was that in this big enough pot check raising the flop doesnt protect my hand. I am better off raising the turn.

3) In retrospect, i couldnt have protected my hand in the turn because villain had OESD and a flush draw. so i am toast either way but thats results oriented thinking.

IS raising the flop better here or the turn ?

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outphase

03-08-2006, 05:58 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

1. Yes
2. c/r the flop, backdoor draws won't think they're good enough against 2 cold
3. yeah once J5s saw the turn cheap, you're boned

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

euphoricism

03-08-2006, 07:59 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Aye. This is one of those flops that looks innocuous but is hiding some really nasty stuff. I agree with outphase.

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Xanadu

03-08-2006, 11:20 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

I find it hard to raise KJs UTG, but I don't mind a 3-bet with it once button has raised. IF the table is loose enough, I might consider open raising it here. I think the deciding factor for me would be how much cold calling is going on. If lots of people are cold calling, I like the raise for value preflop ... KJs is awesome with lotsa people in the pot.

A flop check-raise does protect your hand, giving your opponents about 7:1 on the call. A turn check raise gives about 5.5:1 odds. Now, there aren't all that many drawing hands that are corect to call 7:1 but incorrect to call 5.5:1. You do give them worse odds, and the opportunity to make a greater mistake, but you also give them a chance to catch up to a better made hand or a good draw. At these very loose tables, you typically won't get the weak draws like gutshots and bottom pair to fold no matter what you do, so what you really need to do is get the very weak draws like the back door draw that beat you to fold. And if they refuse to fold ... hey then call it a value bet. Make them pay on the flop if it gives your hand some protection.

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raising the turn correct here instead of flop ??

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