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jutah
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12-30-2006, 10:31 PM
Post subject: raising from the blinds with lots of callers?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 82
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I find myself a lot where I have a hand like AJ, KQ, Q10 on the small or big blind and have 4 or 5 limpers in front of me. I know if I raise they are all going to call so I have not been raising with them. Then if I hit the hand I raise and it is sort of disguised. Is this a correct way to play or should I be raising with hands like these knowing that all will call?
Thanks,
Jutah
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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against this many players you're not forfeiting a lot of edge by just calling. if you're on a hot run or want to push every small edge you get, you should raise for value. (not QT, that's too loose, AJ and KQ definitely, especially suited).
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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If you have the best hand, why do you not want your opponents calling?
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jutah
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 82
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Hi dsaxton, what I have found in some of these low limit tables is that since everybody will call one more bet then I am out of position on the flop. If it doesn't hit me then I am forced to check and normally some goof will be with his ace rag or junk bottom pair and then I have to fold. If I have something suited or connected then I don't mind the callers. Also if I just call or check in the bb then when I do hit I am hidden and someone playing K junk hits too he will call me all the way down and I normally get paid off well.
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mike4066
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,943
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
If you have the best hand, why do you not want your opponents calling?
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Be careful creating huge pots where it becomes proper for your opponents to call with poor draws.
Calling here your oponents get something like 5-6:1 on a flop bet, where if you raise they are getting 10-11:1 making it correct to call.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,515
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FWIW I have never played 6max in the SB and have had 5 limpers in front of me. Either way I think you raise hands that play well in large pots with many opponents. Hands such as QJs play very well in these types of pots. Hands like AJo/AQo go down in value in much larger pots. I would just complete the SB with a lot of offsuited broadways and check in the BB to keep the pot managable. It is tough to protect your hand if the pot gets bloated, especially if the players in late position are passive and will not lead a flop if checked to affording you the possibility of c/r'ing.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Just because opponents are making a correct call does not mean you are losing money. If you have a raising hand you should raise. Your opponents are still losing money on that extra bet and you are gaining. It's a correct call for them because they lose more if they fold. Sure, you also create a situation on the flop where the pot is bigger and a lot of weak draws can call one or even 2 bets correctly, but you shouldn't mind this so much because again even though the call is correct for them, you are still the one making money on the bet when you are ahead. Not raising when you should preflop because you know everyone will call is a pretty big error.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xanadu
Not raising when you should preflop because you know everyone will call is a pretty big error.
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Of course.
However, the concepts of typical shorthanded hold'em do not apply to OP's guidelines. The game he is illustrating is more applicable to a full ring loose table where 5-6 people are seeing a flop. Because of this I would use SSHE criteria in determining a raising hand vs a calling hand.
1. High Card strength
2. Suitedness
3. Connectability
I would certainly want to have my hand meet at least two of these criteria in order to raise here. Big offsuited broadways play very poorly in large pots with many players therefore I would tend to stay away from raising with them. I think you have a lot of control in manipulating the pot from the blinds PF. If you have a hand that plays well in large pots against many opponents why not raise and magnify your edge. If you have a hand which plays well headsup b/c it typically dominates relative hands then why not just complete the SB or check out of the BB.
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jutah
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 82
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Thanks for the input guys 
Jutah
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
If you have the best hand, why do you not want your opponents calling?
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Its often correct to pass on a small edge, if by passing it allows us to press a larger edge later in the hand. Pretty much fits in with what Mike said.
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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OMG NOT ONLY A POST BY MIKE, A POST BY GNOMES TOO!
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mike4066
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,943
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ihategnomes
Its often correct to pass on a small edge, if by passing it allows us to press a larger edge later in the hand. Pretty much fits in with what Mike said.
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ummm yea, what he said that I said.. 
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