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Element187
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05-05-2005, 12:18 AM
Post subject: Quick opinion
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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what can i do to collect more bets in this situation.. i limped in because i wanted more then just the blinds
table is mixed, passive calling stations and tags
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter
Preflop: Element187 is Button with Q , J.
UTG calls, 5 folds, Element187 calls, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: (4 SB) A , T, K (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Element187 checks.
Turn: (2 BB) 3 (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG calls, Element187 raises, SB folds, UTG folds.
Final Pot: 6 BB
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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should i smooth call the turn wait for the river to reraise, and chance someone on an ace high flush draw ?
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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what you did was just SCREAMING i flopped a monster. as ironic as it sounds you'll probably make more money betting the flop because everyone expects you to do so.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Raise pre-flop, the blinds will often call anyway. Fail that, you wouldn't mind isolating UTG and taking down an Axx board. Consider that the blinds are probably worth more than QJs anyway.
Bet the flop, you're the button and everyone expects you to bet here.
Smooth calling the turn has merit...
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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next hand ..
here i wasnt sure if i was beat or not, i know a straight is strong, but how much value can you put into the sucker end of a straight with this much action/players in the hand.
very very very loose table, CO is on tilt, button is on a rush, 2 hands ago, chased a sucker end of a gutshot, in a pot, cold calling on both the flop and turn in the middle of 3 people raise warring, hit on the river and took down a 50 BB pot. (IE: fish) coincedently, this is why CO is on tilt.
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter
Preflop: Element187 is MP2 with J, 9.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Element187 calls, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks.
Flop: (5.50 SB) Q, A, T (5 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Element187 calls, CO calls, Button calls.
Turn: (5.25 BB) 8 (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Element187 calls, CO raises, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Element187 calls.
River: (15.25 BB) 8 (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Element187 calls, CO calls, BB calls.
Final Pot: 19.25 BB
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Fold pre-flop.
You're getting too much value on your money to not cap the turn. With so many other players you don't even need to be good more than 33% of the time.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Fold pre-flop.
You're getting too much value on your money to not cap the turn. With so many other players you don't even need to be good more than 33% of the time.
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so im playing too many hands .. even in a loose table where 60 to 70% limp to see a flop
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
so im playing too many hands .. even in a loose table where 60 to 70% limp to see a flop
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Stay away from the offsuit junk. I would only play JTo from the CO/Button. J9o is a pure steal hand for me.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
so im playing too many hands .. even in a loose table where 60 to 70% limp to see a flop
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Stay away from the offsuit junk. I would only play JTo from the CO/Button. J9o is a pure steal hand for me. |
gotcha, i assumed my starting hands change as the table gets looser.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
gotcha, i assumed my starting hands change as the table gets looser.
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They do, just stay away from the dogshit offsuit junk.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
gotcha, i assumed my starting hands change as the table gets looser.
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They do, just stay away from the dogshit offsuit junk. |
at least in EP ? 
im finding one gappers above 9 are not bad cards in a game with more then 7 limpers, so i added it to my starting hands, but probably not the best idea in EP
whats your criteria for playing J9s ?
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
im finding one gappers above 9 are not bad cards in a game with more then 7 limpers, so i added it to my starting hands, but probably not the best idea in EP
whats your criteria for playing J9s ?
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Consider that 9x will often make the one-off broadway straight and sometimes lose to the broadway or you'll be in a spot like this where you can't get maximum value.
I play J9s from the CO/Button for a limp. Maybe MP too if the game is right.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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i guess i still need some experience there.
at the tighter tables, i notice i cant limp from MP and LP, someone will see me limp and auto raise me with T5o
whats the strategy in the tighter games?
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
i guess i still need some experience there.
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Limping hands like J9o from MP is a great way to have lots of 100BB downswings.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
at the tighter tables, i notice i cant limp from MP and LP, someone will see me limp and auto raise me with T5o
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Open limping outside of UTGish is bad. See "Why you suck at LHE."
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
whats the strategy in the tighter games?
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Be the aggressor. Give yourself 2 ways to win. Unless the game is super-aggro. Then play tight, draw bluffs, check/raise and don't fold a lot.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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First hand:
With an A and a K on the flop, you WILL get action. Flop bet is good. The flop bet will build the pot enough to induce calls on the turn/river based on the pot size. At the turn there was not enough in the pot for your opps to call with marginal hands and draws. Because it was check through there was only 2BB at the turn. Hardly worth calling 1 BB into a 2 BB pot...
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
at the tighter tables, i notice i cant limp from MP and LP, someone will see me limp and auto raise me with T5o
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Open limping outside of UTGish is bad. See "Why you suck at LHE." |
well no, i understand this concept in a tough game, in this scenario, im up against complete donks, if i hit anything above 3 of a kind, im taking down 5 to 10 BB every pot.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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honsheung
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05-05-2005, 04:28 PM
Post subject: Re: Quick opinion
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#17 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 153
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
what can i do to collect more bets in this situation.. i limped in because i wanted more then just the blinds
table is mixed, passive calling stations and tags
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter
Preflop: Element187 is Button with Q , J .
UTG calls, 5 folds, Element187 calls, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: (4 SB) A , T , K (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Element187 checks.
Turn: (2 BB) 3 (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG calls, Element187 raises, SB folds, UTG folds.
Final Pot: 6 BB |
I will also check in flop and smooth call in turn, allowing a flush chance in river.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Be tricky, play your nut hands fast.
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honsheung
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 153
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This may scare them. I go for a check in flop .
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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I will also check in flop and smooth call in turn, allowing a flush chance in river.
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You do realize that Element flopped the straight?
At what point do you plan on making any money on this hand? You gotta get bets in at some point. Why would you want to give the flush draws free cards when you don't have the best flush?
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honsheung
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 153
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lonnie
Quote:
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I will also check in flop and smooth call in turn, allowing a flush chance in river.
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You do realize that Element flopped the straight?
At what point do you plan on making any money on this hand? You gotta get bets in at some point. Why would you want to give the flush draws free cards when you don't have the best flush? |
I just put a backdoor flush like this is very unlikely.Therefore slow play my straight. That's my idea.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lonnie
Quote:
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I will also check in flop and smooth call in turn, allowing a flush chance in river.
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You do realize that Element flopped the straight?
At what point do you plan on making any money on this hand? You gotta get bets in at some point. Why would you want to give the flush draws free cards when you don't have the best flush? |
i knew i had the best hand preflop, if i raise preflop im taking the blinds.. flop comes scare cards for everyone, so i have to check the flop, second club hits, i have to start putting in bets to chase off flush draws, thats my reasoning.. i dont like to give freecards unless im sure it will make the second the best hand for my opponents.. not much could come on the turn that can beat me, the river is another story.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by honsheung
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lonnie
Quote:
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I will also check in flop and smooth call in turn, allowing a flush chance in river.
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You do realize that Element flopped the straight?
At what point do you plan on making any money on this hand? You gotta get bets in at some point. Why would you want to give the flush draws free cards when you don't have the best flush? |
I just put a backdoor flush like this is very unlikely.Therefore slow play my straight. That's my idea. |
everyone plays ace rag suited, when a flop comes ace, they will stick around unless they know they are beat.
if i slow play too much, my straight could be conterfeited on the river with a Q or J
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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honsheung
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 153
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
Quote:
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Originally Posted by honsheung
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lonnie
Quote:
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I will also check in flop and smooth call in turn, allowing a flush chance in river.
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You do realize that Element flopped the straight?
At what point do you plan on making any money on this hand? You gotta get bets in at some point. Why would you want to give the flush draws free cards when you don't have the best flush? |
I just put a backdoor flush like this is very unlikely.Therefore slow play my straight. That's my idea. |
everyone plays ace rag suited, when a flop comes ace, they will stick around unless they know they are beat.
if i slow play too much, my straight could be conterfeited on the river with a Q or J |
will the chacne of conterfeited be that high?
This hand is worth thinking about it again an again, interest.
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