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pokerlearner

11-11-2005, 09:22 PM Post subject: question on moving up

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

Hi Guys,

I have a question about moving up. I am currently playing $4-$8 exclusively at our local Indian B&M casino. I started this level in begining of October with a very small bankroll. I had a good run and built it up to a very comfortable level (and a 3000$ bad beat jackpot win where i had the winning hand of course helped).

here are my questions.

1) How long should i still continue to play 4-8 just to prove to myself that i can move up . 1.5 months (only 140 hours at 3.25 BB/ hour which is not even sustainable in long term) seems very small sample size to determine whether I am good or was it just upswing and good cards.

I DO feel comfortable though that I can play this game well at this level against the kind of opponents that play this level.

2) If I move up I currently would have 400 BB bankroll for 6-12 game. Since i have NEVER played this high, should i try to build it up some more so i am more comfortable. I hadnt had any big downswing in 4-8 and actually started playing $4-$8 after i came out of my downswing. I am just afraid that as soon as I start, maybe its time for a downswing...and drop huge once i play$6-$12.

3) or should i take the intermediate way. Play 6-12 2 times a week (on weekends when games are maybe softer) and play 4-8 for say next 3-4 months to prove to myself that i am ready to move up.

4) My BIGGEST concern. i play very straightforward (Taggy) so I dont even know if my game is good enough for $6-$12. I suspect that at this level my opponents might be a lot more aware and make moves against me that i would fail to detect.

I have read SSH a few times and follow it. I plan to read it a few more times. but should I be reading a few more advanced books.

I am just afraid that my game is very predictable and i might not survive 6-12 against tricky opponents. I raise or reraise when i supposed to, bet the flop when i have pfred. give up if i dont improve sometimes (and no odds)....basically very easy to make a move against me if the flop didnt hit me and didnt improve on the turn.

so basically what other books do i need to read ?

SORRY FOR THE LONG POST. its a big decision for me so thanks to all of you for your replies.

Also thanks to FTR for improving my game. I would have never imagined even playing $4-$8 1 year back. Its still a memory when i dropped 200$ playing 2-4 on my first live game and I felt like such a huge idiot and every other player seemed so intimidating to me.

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Nehmer

11-11-2005, 09:32 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Decatur, IL

Posts: 666

You have the bankroll and stats to at least try out the 6-12 game. If you try it a few times and realize that the players are a lot better and you are out of your league, it's not really a big deal. If you try it a few times and realize the other players aren't any better at all, then great. There is really no way of knowing if you are ready for the next level or not without just jumping in and trying it once you have the needed bankroll and confidence.

pokerfanatic

11-11-2005, 09:33 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

where are you playing 4/8 at? live i'm asuming, the 5/10 games typicaly don't offer better play live from what i have heard the chop spot is about 8/16, i know my local casinos (well 1 or 2 hour drive from me) 5/10 players suck, isn't that right nomes and mike?

“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord

elipsesjeff

11-11-2005, 09:34 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Location: Northern Virginia

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elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

Move up when you have the Bankroll to do so.

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pokerlearner

11-11-2005, 09:47 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

I think I will do what Nehmer said. Try it out 1-2 times a week since i have the bankroll. and if I suck compared to the competition, well i would move back down and continue playing 4-8 till i improve.

I have a buddy who also plays 4-8. He tried out a few times 6-12 and said its not that tough and he played the waiting game for big hands and got paid off well by other players. But he is a much better heads up player than me, and he can make moves I wouldnt dare.

Kessler

11-11-2005, 11:21 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Las Vegas

Posts: 117

Well, You added $3k to your bankroll in one day from hitting a jackpot. That's great, but even though you are BR'd for 6-12, you didn't get it from slowly growing your 4/8 BR @ 1-2BB/hr (or whatever) for a good amount of hours. I know you play probably 15-30 hours a week; Do you feel that you've gained enough experience to move up? I'm not trying to be pessimistic, I'm asking an honest question. If you feel you have, vaya con dios and godspeed.

If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.

pokerlearner

11-12-2005, 12:27 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

hi kessler, excellent point and thats MY concern too.

i didnt build my bankroll exclusively by playing, but i dont feel an uphill battle in $4-$8. I will keep you guys updated in my 2 times a week adventure in $6-$12 and if i need strategy help of course i can count on the FTR guys here..

. i plan to play $4-$8 in the near future until i am very confident to move up.

Demiparadigm

11-12-2005, 01:36 AM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Party 6 max

Posts: 1,602

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...=190436#190436

Consider what you are going to do if you start out losing at 6/12.
By saying "I'll move back if I lose $400"(or some variant), you are really playing 6/12 with a $400 bankroll, increasing your risk of ruin.
If you have the bankroll, try it out. If you think you can beat the game, stick with it. Don't necessarily wait for the weekend, though, as 6/12 tends to be more agressive, and you may end up in a wild game that you are not used to. Look for a table texture that suits your style.
Consider going in to play 4/8, but check out the 6/12 game- watch a few hands. If you are comfortable, sit in for a while.

Good Luck.

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

The_Bankroll

11-20-2005, 06:04 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Athens, GA

Posts: 370

I say give it a shot, gauge the competition. If it goes well, stick with it. if not, go back to 4/8, get some practice, build your bankroll, give it another try when you feel more prepared

pokerlearner

11-21-2005, 07:22 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

I played 31 hours (5 sessions) this past week at $6-$12 and won @ 2.5 BB/hour. However as we all know its an insignificant sample and am looking forward to how i do in at least say 100 live hours.

However, I do feel that my edge is much less here than at $4-$8. Its also more boring because so many pots are raised at $6-$12, i cant limp in with my suited connectors out of position any more (that i could in $4-$8). I am pretty much folding most of the night and when i do have a hand, pray it holds up LOL. in 4-8 i was playing suited connectors and suited 1 gappers out of position because of multiway unraised pots (in ideal table conditions, which i always look for. i dont try to play in the table that is too tight or too aggressive)

The players dont seem to be that much better. but there is some more PFR than $4-$8, and less people to the flop (which makes it imperative that i cut down on the already limited number of hands i generally play). Players seem to take stab at pots a lot more than previous level too. however, i still see a lot of people cold calling with weak aces, suited aces, suited connectors, shit like that.

So far i seem to be holding my own, but if my win rate (total $ earned in 1 month) seems to suffer compared to $4-$8 then i might move down. better be making more $ than playing higher.

Or is that a chicken out ? I should stick it out and learn to play better at this level ?

Fnord

11-21-2005, 08:24 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

...in other words, it plays more like an online game

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pokerlearner

11-21-2005, 09:56 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

lol @ Fnord. Thats true !!

However, I still maintain that party poker $0.5-$1 players on average are still better and more aggressive than the $6-$12 at my casino.

here are the problems i am facing with $6-$12.

1) implementing "never open-limp" concepts. If i raise AJo, KJo, A-10o (that i always did online) from MP1 onwards, i definitely have to hit something by the turn because one player is going to call me down with any pair. unless the board is really scary (like too much paint

). so i limp with them and regularly check-folding the flop if no good draws for me or made hands. (i am regularly folding JQo, K-10o, A-9o as i have lost some shit load of money on that hands and clearly -ev for me at least. some experts can make money off of those hands too but i am not of that caliber. i know my limitations

).

oh other problem is raising with those hands is people dont reraise with hands that beat you and you only find that out by the river. I have seen people cold call with QQ, JJ etc and only bet the turn when you check unimproved.

2) I have trouble with recognizing when to call down with 9-9 or 10-10 to the aggressor. a lot of people keep betting AK, AQ unimproved till the river and i dont know when they have me beat and when they dont. especially HU i am more tempted to call down. is that correct strategy ?

3) A lot of bluffing going on at $6-$12. I am not good at bluffing at all. i do semi bluff bets, raises, raising for information/free card play etc. but stone cold bluff to steal a pot - not of that caliber yet. dont know if i ever will be good enough to do that

.

4) Since i dont compromise on my strict cold calling standards sometimes it puts me on tilt when i see people raising from MP1 with J-10s and I fold my KJo and shit like that. The only liberty i take in loose play is calling with suited connectors and suited one gappers out of position. but these cards still dont come around often to play any hands.

sometimes I play as few as 4-5 hands/hour outside the blinds and if one of the powerhouse hands gets cracked i get on tilt.

5) I need to develop the ability to bet into weakness. if i could develop that skill then i would be raking it in a lot more than what i do now. i dont think its something i could learn it in a book. maybe just grow some balls and as Fnord says...gambooool.

6) also hard to sniff out a loose maniac. say he raises and i catch top pair or 2 pair. only to find out that villain raised with 2-3s, 5-6s and made trips and thats what he was betting with on that paired board!! all sorts of plays here at the $6-$12 table. i mean how do you know that the 7-7-4 board helped the villain who was the preflop raiser when you have 10-10 or 9-9.

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