QQ facing Axx flop

**Hermann the Lombard** · 11-16-2007 06:06 PM

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2

, A

, 5

(5 players)
SB bets, Hero...

UTG+1 and MP1 are LPP (VP$IP 55 & 75), MP2 is 30/7/1 (3 on river), but SB is a bit more threatening here: 15/3/1 (3 on the flop, 0 after). My first instinct is to raise hoping to isolate in position, and if I get 3bet bail out because it's almost certainly an Ace. My second thought is to fold on the assumption that one of them has an Ace leaving me with two outs.

**littleogre** · 11-16-2007 06:32 PM

fold with that many players somebody is bound to have an ace. We are not geting odds to try and spike a set and there is no way you are gonna get the ace to fold.

**arborman** · 11-16-2007 06:43 PM

All too many players stay in preflop with any ace at all. It's hard to let go of strong pp, but it's harder to play them fast and lose to the idjit with A3o. A king on the flop is another matter, but an ace means you need another reason to stay in (redraws), or just fold and save yourself the hassle.

**snowboard_31** · 11-17-2007 01:24 AM

If you had better position and everyone else called along you migth have odds to draw to the set, but the existance of two spades probably makes one of your outs dirty.

But thats off track, agree fold

**Hermann the Lombard** · 11-17-2007 07:00 PM

I just noticed a very relevant example in SSHE. The hand has QQ in MP, raised PF, the flop has two spades, and SB leads into Hero post-flop. The trivial difference is one player folds between SB & Hero. The critical differences are that the flop is K-high and the Queens include a spade so there's a BDFD.

Looking at that example (not thinking about this one) I said "Raise" and that is their answer, but their key thoughts are that it would be very odd if SB donked with a King and the BDFD means that the Q out is not tainted. They go on to say that if Hero didn't have the spade Queen then it would probably be a fold, but since you're not going to fold you must raise to protect your hand.

So clearly my hand would be a fold because it's so much more likely that one of them has an Ace, we don't have the spade Queen, and it wouldn't be that odd if SB donked with an Ace.

11-16-2007 06:06 PM #1
Hermann the Lombard View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2007 Posts 270	QQ facing Axx flop PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver) Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls. Flop: (10 SB) 2, A, 5 (5 players) SB bets, Hero... UTG+1 and MP1 are LPP (VP$IP 55 & 75), MP2 is 30/7/1 (3 on river), but SB is a bit more threatening here: 15/3/1 (3 on the flop, 0 after). My first instinct is to raise hoping to isolate in position, and if I get 3bet bail out because it's almost certainly an Ace. My second thought is to fold on the assumption that one of them has an Ace leaving me with two outs.
	Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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11-16-2007 06:32 PM #2
littleogre View Profile View Forum Posts Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 1,334	fold with that many players somebody is bound to have an ace. We are not geting odds to try and spike a set and there is no way you are gonna get the ace to fold.

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11-16-2007 06:43 PM #3
arborman View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2007 Posts 300	All too many players stay in preflop with any ace at all. It's hard to let go of strong pp, but it's harder to play them fast and lose to the idjit with A3o. A king on the flop is another matter, but an ace means you need another reason to stay in (redraws), or just fold and save yourself the hassle.

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11-17-2007 01:24 AM #4
snowboard_31 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2007 Posts 218	If you had better position and everyone else called along you migth have odds to draw to the set, but the existance of two spades probably makes one of your outs dirty. But thats off track, agree fold
	1. Get a seat to their right 2. Steal blinds at will 3. ... 4. Profit "It should be a crime to not bet if someone has checked to you twice." -soupie "If you can pinpoint a player's range, you can own his soul." -Bond18
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11-17-2007 07:00 PM #5
Hermann the Lombard View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2007 Posts 270	I just noticed a very relevant example in SSHE. The hand has QQ in MP, raised PF, the flop has two spades, and SB leads into Hero post-flop. The trivial difference is one player folds between SB & Hero. The critical differences are that the flop is K-high and the Queens include a spade so there's a BDFD. Looking at that example (not thinking about this one) I said "Raise" and that is their answer, but their key thoughts are that it would be very odd if SB donked with a King and the BDFD means that the Q out is not tainted. They go on to say that if Hero didn't have the spade Queen then it would probably be a fold, but since you're not going to fold you must raise to protect your hand. So clearly my hand would be a fold because it's so much more likely that one of them has an Ace, we don't have the spade Queen, and it wouldn't be that odd if SB donked with an Ace.
	Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
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