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littleogre
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01-17-2007, 04:48 PM
Post subject: A/Q off versus a raise from ep player with a 15.6 pfr.
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok a player with a pfr of 15.6 raises from utg+1 and you have AQ off on the button. everyone save for the blinds has already folded. Should you just call or 3-bet/reraise to try and get heads up with the over aggressive player?
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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3bet.
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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3bet almost every time without a solid, specfic read on your raiser and the blinds; it's not even close.
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Yeah would 3bet since 15% PFR is quite aggressive. A guy that aggressive will often bet (even in early position) with medium-low pairs and KQ/AJ, if not more.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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15.6 really THAT aggressive in a 10 handed game?
77+,A7s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo
Meh, guess so. His range from UTG+1 is probably more like 12%ish would ya think:
77+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KJo+
Youre ahead of this range 53% to 47% and you have the button so I would say it is quite a basic 3ball. Now, say ya have ATo. WWYD then?
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
15.6 really THAT aggressive in a 10 handed game?
77+,A7s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo
Meh, guess so. His range from UTG+1 is probably more like 12%ish would ya think:
77+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KJo+
Youre ahead of this range 53% to 47% and you have the button so I would say it is quite a basic 3ball. Now, say ya have ATo. WWYD then?
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ATo is more read dependent but in low stakes, probably a fold. Let me add a thought to this question that may help with understanding why a 3 bet is favored for A,Qo and may still be favored here whether you are statistically ahead or not (assuming you know his exact statistical range). If we assume everyone behind you folds, the blinds fold, and the preflop raiser will only continue after he sees the flop if he either hits the flop with top pair or has exactly A,A, K,K, Q,Q, J,J or maybe 10,10, will these assumptions cause you to tighten or loosen your 3betting range? I.e, how often will he hit versus where he just gives up to your continued aggression, giving you all the preflop action without a fight?
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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The 3-bet is clear here. In addition to being ahead of the original raiser's range, and making money off the blinds by forcing them into a real lose-lose situation, you will have position throughout the hand. 3-betting also gives you information, especially if you suspect original raiser does not cap light. If he caps, you can put him on QQ+, AK, if he doesn't cap, you can at least rule out AA and KK.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok change that AQ to 99. I would imagine a 3 bet is still correct.
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Xioustic
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 322
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Calling AQo to the standard TAgg/LAgg when he's UTG, raising someone this loose (if he's playing right he's 15%PFR and 30%VPiP which makes him fishy/maniac/crazy).
Would not recommend calling in this situation with this player and our position, we want to isolate the loosey. They either have you beaten or you have them beaten. AQo is ugly against an UTG raiser.
99 is the same deal. 99 holds more equity than AQo even.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok my standrad line with 99 in the described situation is to 3 bet. I want to try and isolate the maniac. If i don't hit a set i call down unless the board has a lot of overs. If a hit a set i win lots of bets because lead out and the bully can not stand to not get the last bet in. They take your raise as a personal insult. Also unless 4 suited cards come out by the the turn or some 3 overs or 3 or 4 cards to a str8 i have 0 respect for the maniacs bets the flop turn or river. Yes the bad guy will turn over a big hand sometimes but as it has worked out so far they do not beat me enough to make folding correct . Now change sammy the bull to ricky the rock and i play the hand a diffrent way
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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Maybe I have been playing shorthanded too long, but 15.6% PFR is not that agressive and definitely not maniac stats. I was playing with an ATM last night shorthanded that was running 89/45 with an agression factor of 2.
If you play A,Qo or 9,9 at all, you must 3 bet or fold because these hands do not hold up well multiway; coldcalling is the worst option and your card strength is too great to fold. If you are worried about players behind you calling 3 cold, you need to switch tables.
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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15 pfr at full ring is super aggressive.
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