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bcauldwell
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12-01-2004, 02:12 PM
Post subject: Q: I Have A Problem Folding Second Best Hands...
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Red Bank, NJ
Posts: 10
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So I've been playing alittle over a month and a half now. I've read Sklanskys book, Hellmuth's book, Phil Gordon's book, and now just recently Lee Jones book. Jones book is by far my personal favorite and I re-read it everyday while commuting to work.
My game has improved greatly, but I seem to be only breaking even after every few hours of play. I'm doing everything by the book, but somewhere I'm lacking, and that is laying my hand down when my gut tells me I have the second best hand.
I'll be head to head with someone with a great hand, my gut tells me I've got the second best hand but still my pride swells with a look at the pot, and I toss in my big bets to the river and lose.
It seems as if I could only lay them down more often when my gut tells me I have second best I would be up alot more money.
Any advice from anyone?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Limit is not a game of laydowns.
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LockLow34
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 266
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I've only been playing for money for about 8 months now. I'd been improving the whole time but still wasn't making lots of money. So about 3 months ago I started to analyze my game, figuring out where I could tighten up and where I could be more aggressive.
One area where I found it to be VERY helpful in tightening up is the hands I go in with preflop. Or maybe a more apt way of saying it is that I now take into consideration a number of things before entering a pot: whether it was raised, who raised, what my position is, how many in the pot, the overall type of table I'm at. Example: last night I laid down AQo preflop in MP to a TAGgy player who raised just to my right. Another player took him to the river, and the raiser showed KK at the end.
I also consider the relative value of my own cards in comparison to cards other players hold and what they enter the pot with when deciding whether to raise my own self. In the previous example, heads up, KK is an 80/20 favorite over AQo, meaning 80% of whatever I put in the pot would end up with KK, regardless of who took that particular pot. (Sounds weird but if you've read Sklansky you'll understand what I'm saying.)
No longer do I call a raise from the big blind with crap like Q3o, A4o, J6s, etc. No longer do I call a raise from the small blind with ANY drawing hand. Hell, if the small blind is less than 50% of the big blind I won't enter the pot at all, except with premium cards. Never enter a pot, especially a raised pot, out of position with inferior cards.
Basically what I'm getting at is this: don't put yourself in a position to MAKE a hand that's second best. Consistently putting yourself in situations that will cost you 1/2 a bet, or 1 bet, or 2 bets with little to no chance of winning the pot is a fast track to losing your whole stack.
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fishstick
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 1,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Limit is not a game of laydowns.
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fnord's wife:"honey, what would you like to do this weekend?"
fnord: "kill bison, make fire!"
to elaborate just a little, really think about {not} making a laydown when the pot is large to just 1 or 2 extra bets if you think there's any chance you have the best hand. when the pot is large, just winning one of these occasionally will more than make up for those lost bets when you don't.
check out Small Stakes Holdem by miller et al.
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i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Limit is not a game of laydowns.
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when the pot is very big, is what fnord forgot to mention :P
i deem a pot big when it's about 10BB
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bcauldwell
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Red Bank, NJ
Posts: 10
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I'm very tight and my pre flop folding and raising is excellent, it's just those head to heads with second best hand is killing me...
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bcauldwell
I'm very tight and my pre flop folding and raising is excellent, it's just those head to heads with second best hand is killing me...
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What game/limit/site are you playing?
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bcauldwell
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Red Bank, NJ
Posts: 10
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PartyPoker Limit Holdem $.50/$1
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Don't worry about paying off too much then. Most pots are "big."
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