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Putting in one more on the river....

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Fnord

10-07-2004, 12:45 PM Post subject: Putting in one more on the river....

#1 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

What range of hands do you put the CO and Button on?

edit: Table is a little fishy ~4 to a flop. Mostly a mix of weak/tight and semi-loose/passives.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is BB with 4

, 5

.
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, Fnord calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 7

, 5

, 4

(4 players)
Fnord bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button raises, Fnord 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) A

(4 players)
Fnord bets, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button raises, Fnord calls, CO calls.

River: (16.25 BB) 8

(3 players)
Fnord bets, CO calls, Button raises, Fnord 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 25.25 BB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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zilch

10-07-2004, 01:48 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 156

How about the Button on Ad with offsuit king or perhaps another diamond.
I'm not at all sure about the CO. Perhaps a straight 67s or 23s?
One of them may also have two pair.

call_me_CHEF

10-07-2004, 01:54 PM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 38

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I put the button on Ad6d, raised for the semi bluff on the flop, picked up the Ace and thought he was good, and then the straight on the end. The CO is tough, but probably a 76 or 56 for flopped open ended with a pair that he really had to be in check call mode with.

-Put 'em in your mouth and suck 'em

Fnord

10-07-2004, 02:04 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Interesting that both of you think I'm ahead of the Button on the Turn.

So, should I have 3-bet the turn? Between the chance that I'm ahead, my flush outs and possible outs to fill up?

I must have had a weak/tight session. Played a little .5/1 because the 2/4 tables were sucking. Dropped 3 pots on the river to bad folds to the same guy. So I took it out on the 2/4 folks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

zilch

10-07-2004, 02:14 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 156

Having gone away I had the thought that the button may by on 77. This also may be hinted at in your reply about if you are ahead. If he has the pair then a 4 or 5 means you are still beaten. So you may be just left with the flush draw which may not be worth the three bet.

Humphrind

10-07-2004, 02:53 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

I'm assuming CO's got a 6 if he's tight. He could have as little as Ax if he's a calling station. I'm guessing 65s or 76s

Maybe trips for the button. But again, depends on his playing style.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

Fnord

10-07-2004, 09:03 PM

#7 (permalink)

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I might run the Button's line with a set, so I figured he either had one, or perhaps A

for a better 2 pair. Hence, I slowed down on the turn.

On the river, the only hand that beats me is a better flush which is both freak and the button was representing a hand made on the flop or turn. Hence, I only had the CO to fear for a bigger flush, but his action looked like some idiot clinging onto some part of the board. Hence, the river 3-bet.

Button had A7 offsuit (gave him too much credit)
CO had 66

MHIG!

I posted this hand because I thought the turn/river decisions were interesting and it's a great example of good hand reading allowing you get in an extra bet without a nut-like hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

zilch

10-08-2004, 09:05 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 156

Thanks Fnord. Intresting hand. Hand reading is something I'm trying to work on at the moment. I'm spending quite a lot of time going through old hands with pokertracker to practice. And these sorts of posts also help seeing other peopls views too.

Fnord

10-08-2004, 09:42 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Yeah, but hand reading bad players is really fuzzy...

Take one example from tonight.

I limp KJs from MP after 2 limpers (I had 2 bad players acting after me who were tight pre-flop when I raised, but otherwise played junk.)

Flop comes J 9 6 (or something like that), 2 suited.

Checked to me, I bet, some calls, (tight) BB c/r's, I 3-bet, BB and one other player call.
Turn is a brick. BB bets! we both call.
River is another brick. BB bets, other guy folds, I call.

BB has 96o for the flopped 2 pair and chats up a storm about it. My limp cost me the pot. His crappy play cost him at least 1 BB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

fishstick

10-08-2004, 05:09 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

this hand summarizes a lot of my limit bad experiences. i don't find myself getting outdrawn on the turn or river, so much as getting beat up front by a two pair hand that should have been folded preflop to my raise.

in your example, mr. 96o is already in for one bet, i bet he would have called your raise. still (as you said), a raise on your part would have been more correct - even if you lost, it further compounds his error.

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

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Putting in one more on the river....

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