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euphoricism
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06-10-2006, 02:42 AM
Post subject: Purposefully passive .. but too much?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is MP with Q , A .
UTG calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.
Flop: (6.40 SB) T , T , Q (3 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls.
Turn: (4.20 BB) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.
River: (4.20 BB) A (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 6.20 BB
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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I was thinking of raising and folding to a threebet... but then I figured, if I'm going to fold to a threebet, why raise?
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6high
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 136
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I don't think he's ever screwplaying this turn. I bet.
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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I don't understand the turn check...For most opponents, the flop donk bet is basically telling you he doesn't have a T and the board has a lot of draws on it, so I say just bet.
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thenonsequitur
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06-10-2006, 07:18 AM
Post subject: Re: Purposefully passive .. but too much?
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#5 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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I bet the turn. If he has a ten and bet the flop and got no raisers, it's really unlikely he's going to try to checkraise the turn. And if he has a Q or a draw he's calling, so there is value in betting.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Well, in a case of earth shattering logic, I figured villain either had the T or he did not.
If he had the T, I was saving money by checking through the turn.
If he had a Q, I was losing money by not getting value for it
If he had nothing, I was going to let him attempt to draw thin (I'm only really scared of a K on the river... but it wouldn't change much.) or let him stab at a river which he has no chance of picking up, either way hoping to get an extra bet when ahead and lose the last when behind.
I think I like my check through on the turn. I think I should have popped a river and folded to a threebet. But you guys seem to hate that line.
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stingo0
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 33
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what about KJ K9 J8 Qx KQ AJ ?
turn check is horrible
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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I raise the flop
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gutsh0t
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8
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I also, would raise the flop and see what line my opponent takes. if he calls, im putting him on either a bluff attempt on the flop or maybe hes got a Q also. But the way opponent played the hand...i wouldnt be surprised if he actually did have a 10. i've seen a lot of players bet out their trips and then if they get one caller, try to induce a caller to bet and then check-raise him...but this is at $1/$2...not sure how it is at $5/$10
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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I disagree. Raising the flop is dumb. We'll only fold a worse hand, and we'll get punished when he has a better hand. Raising the flop does us precious little good.
If he's willing to fire bets into a pot when he is way the hell behind, why would you want to raise and discourage that?
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Over half of the donk bets I encounter are draws.
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6high
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 136
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
Over half of the donk bets I encounter are draws.
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So why discourage them from betting?
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Because I want to get to showdown. If I raise the flop and bet the turn, I can choose to check behind on the river. It also makes for an easier laydown if I get 3 bet on the flop
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6high
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 136
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
Because I want to get to showdown. If I raise the flop and bet the turn, I can choose to check behind on the river.
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If the action goes, villian bets, you raise, he calls. you bet, he calls. You should always be betting the river.
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It also makes for an easier laydown if I get 3 bet on the flop
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You'll have the best hand a decent% even when the flop gets 3bet.
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gutsh0t
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
I disagree. Raising the flop is dumb. We'll only fold a worse hand, and we'll get punished when he has a better hand. Raising the flop does us precious little good.
If he's willing to fire bets into a pot when he is way the hell behind, why would you want to raise and discourage that?
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i find that in the low limits that I play at ($1/$2)...this raise is effective for me because its not really "discouraging" my opponents when they're behind. Its just capitalizing on their retardedness for calling my raises when they're behind. Very often they will go to river and showdown with a crap hand all the while calling my raises and bets when i think my hand is good. I see players with low pocket pair firing a bet on flop when the board is paired or even high card draws.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Fair enough.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 6high
Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
Because I want to get to showdown. If I raise the flop and bet the turn, I can choose to check behind on the river.
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If the action goes, villian bets, you raise, he calls. you bet, he calls. You should always be betting the river. |
Why? It's the same concept as raising for a free showdown just on the flop. Would you bet the river against a passive player if 5th st completed every draw out there?
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6high
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 136
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
Quote:
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Originally Posted by 6high
Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
Because I want to get to showdown. If I raise the flop and bet the turn, I can choose to check behind on the river.
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If the action goes, villian bets, you raise, he calls. you bet, he calls. You should always be betting the river. |
Why? It's the same concept as raising for a free showdown just on the flop. |
It may cost the same but it is not the same concept as a free showdown raise.
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Would you bet the river against a passive player if 5th st completed every draw out there?
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Most definitely yes.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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It costs less
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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i fire the turn, i don't see many people donk then c/r the turn over at party...
seen it a lot actully at crypto...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
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6high
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 136
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
It costs less
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If you have the best hand, it costs villian less.
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