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psycho call-anything opponents home game problem

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urobolus

10-25-2005, 04:14 PM Post subject: psycho call-anything opponents home game problem

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posts: 42

Okay, I posted this in another forum (the beginner's circle), but it seems more appropriate to this forum than the other.

The deal is, I play a home game of Texas Hold Em with my buddies on Tuesdays; there are six of us, we each put in $5.00, and the max you can bet or raise is 50 cents.

Though occasionally some of them will play tightly, 99.9% of the time there is always at least one or two of them who will call you "just to see what you have." These same people will also play on any darn thing that comes down the pike, and it's impossible to tell whether they have something or not. I'll end up folding to find out they had crap, or play hard because I think they've got crap and they'll have a monster.

The first three games I played pretty loosely; I saw the flop most of the time if I had a high card or any type of connectors (lots of times even high-end gaps). I'd occasionally win, but most of the time I'd end up with crap by the turn and would have no desire to follow up on these people's ridiculous raising habits for the river. I went out three games in a row, making my total -$15, though I've clawed my way back up to -$7.40.

I asked some experts here and they said I should tighten up and only play pocket pairs, high-end suited connectors, AK through AJ, KQ, and cards of those higher groups.

I haven't applied the strategy yet, but I've been trying it out in low-end poker rooms (play money) at Empire Poker with typically bad results. Maybe I shouldn't judge from those, though, since play money low-end poker rooms are probably of a different feather...but still, I'll honestly wait around for a good hand, bet like crazy and most of the time the flop, turn and river cards will just spit in my face. Then I have to wait around forever again. It's frustrating waiting around when you've just lost a pile, y'know?

Anyone have any input beyond what I've mentioned? Sorry for cross-posting, but I'm sick and tired of having strategy-less people make fortunes while I usually don't break even (I have crap for luck, honestly). I want to be out of debt and I want my buddies' brashness to come back and bite them in the ass so there is less gloating about how "man, you just don't play hard enough." They're great guys, but you can understand how I feel; it's like a call-station gloating that "he's awesome" because he occasionally wins huge on crap.

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Hate

10-25-2005, 04:33 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 322

So... you play loose vs maniacs and you play tight at play money tables.
Do you see what your problem is?

Wet_DreaMer

10-26-2005, 05:27 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Viridian City!

Posts: 190

maybe they are all secretly pros and are using your moneys to enter in to their high stakes games.

this would explain a lot.

jmontis

10-26-2005, 07:34 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 1,296

answer your own question with logic:

so you don't want "call anything" opponents, what do you want them to do: Fold worse hands to your bet and only raise when they have you beat? Just think about that for a minute...

take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately

Andy Holt

10-26-2005, 07:50 AM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: They were suited!

Posts: 336

My thinking is that a game like the one you're in is the easiest to beat, bar none. But you're looking at it the wrong way. Winning poker players don't necessarily have a "strategy" or a way that we play a hand every single time. We adjust to our surroundings and play our cards as we see fit. If there was a correct simple "strategy" (i.e. only play pocket pairs and cards higher than ten) for beating even the easiest games, we could all quit our jobs. You really have to take a step back and realize where the money comes from. It comes from your opponents' mistakes and their idiotic decisions. By the same token, you can't make the same mistakes or decisions, and you MUST adjust to their play. Value bet their asses when you have a set and they have a gutshot. Bet the maximum, leave them bad odds so they make a mistake by calling. Sooner or later these edges all add up. If you can't make an edge in this game and are frustrated all the time, there's nothing wrong with looking ahead and moving to a better game where you can win.

Anyway, even a game as easy as this can't be thought of in terms of a formula or secret strategy. Sadly, it's harder than that to consistently beat the game. Nobody, not even poker players, can get a free lunch.

silverfist

10-26-2005, 08:12 AM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 341

Here are a few other tips to help out in that kind of game:

1) Don't bluff. Ever. Don't even do a lead bet after you raised preflop. Just bet if you have something, and get the heck out of there if you don't.

2) You need to change up your hand selection a bit. Play all the pairs, even deuces. Play suited connectors, suited one- and two-gappers down to 45s, 35s and 25s. Play all suited aces. Play nothing else except AK, since high pairs with mediocre kickers are garbage in games like this.

3) You play the flop almost completely differently. If you don't flop a set, ditch your pairs. If you have an overpair, it's nice, but even aces will get cracked about half the time against crazy people. Be very mindful of any possible draw out there and watch for tells. If you get an 8-out or better draw, hang in there. You'll be getting the implied odds to call.

4) Remember that you win in poker when you have the right odds and lose when you don't. Poker isn't about short term money; it's about the long term. If you play correctly, you win.

Good luck with your game. Remember not to get frustrated. Every time someone draws to an inside straight, you played better than he did.

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Wet_DreaMer

10-26-2005, 10:00 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Viridian City!

Posts: 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverfist

2) You need to change up your hand selection a bit. Play all the pairs, even deuces. Play suited connectors, suited one- and two-gappers down to 45s, 35s and 25s. Play all suited aces. Play nothing else except AK, since high pairs with mediocre kickers are garbage in games like this.

yep this is perfect.

in fact, you should be raising 25s, from any position.
and keep folding AQo because you will be outkicked every time. In fact even if you are SB you shouldnt complete with AQo because it sucks so much and 6 handed someone is sure to have AK.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,190,719 games 39.734 secs 55,134 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 25.7383 % 24.76% 00.98% { AsQh }
Hand 2: 14.3638 % 13.56% 00.81% { 5s2s }
Hand 3: 14.9786 % 13.92% 01.06% { random }
Hand 4: 14.9721 % 13.92% 01.05% { random }
Hand 5: 14.9986 % 13.95% 01.05% { random }
Hand 6: 14.9485 % 13.88% 01.07% { random }

wait......

R3N3G4D3

10-26-2005, 01:46 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 16

If you want to know which hands to play preflop, there are tons of charts online and most of them are pretty similar, pre-flop play is the easy part. One thing you have to remember is that it doesn't just depend on the cards, but on position too. Don't play hands like 76s from early position, but limp in from late with it if there is no raise for example. Hopefully you understand why position matters.

Now, if you actually want to know how to play Limit to win (and not just which hands to play pre-flop) then the best guide is "Small Stakes Hold'em" book, which costs about $25 and is worth every penny.

Fnord

10-26-2005, 06:47 PM

#9 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverfist

I have fond memories of WTFPwning a guy at a 4/8 table who was playing like this.

Also, suited connectors below 45s are trash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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psycho call-anything opponents home game problem

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