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protection question

  
 
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Chopper
Old 06-22-2007, 04:54 PM     Post subject: protection question #1 (permalink)  
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this hand took place awhile ago, and i just found it to post. so, i forgot any of the reads i may have had.

i do want to know if i did something wrong on the turn. i felt i should have c/red here, but initially i thought "i should c/r to take odds away from someone." but, figured i was barely giving odds to the first caller anyway, and if i go for the c/r, the guy to my left may bet, the next may call, and i am not taking any odds away then...so, i should bet out now, and make it as unprofitable as i can?

either way, when the flush card hit, i was done with the aggression, and was calling one bet on the river.

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, K.
2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 8, A, K (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 5 (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 5 (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

button showed 36s for the flush.

can you throw away this on the river?
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bigspenda73
Old 06-22-2007, 05:03 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Easy river fold not b/c the flush came in but b/c your 2pr was conterfeited by the board pairing. Any Ace made Aces up and has your K8 beat.

C/r the flop or if the SB leads out you should raise. Lead the turn and then yes c/f the river.
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euphoricism
Old 07-06-2007, 04:49 AM #3 (permalink)  
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ez flop c/r. Gotta charge the draws.
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Chopper
Old 07-06-2007, 02:12 PM #4 (permalink)  
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since "studying" a bit more, i have noticed i am not using the c/r as much as i used to.

i guess the reason why is that if i check, opp bets, and i raise...the pot is bigger and its still only one bet to call. meaning, if the pot is 4sb on the flop, as here, and i get a bettor (5sb), a caller (6sb) and i raise (8sb)...then the odds are much better for the callers that have already called. they are now getting 8:1 on their money, yes? doesnt that price in a lot of other crap...like gutshots, etc?

i raise to protect when there are others to act after me...forcing "would be" callers to call 2 sb cold...effectively giving only 4:1 odds in the same 8sb pot.

please explain why i should be c/r ing here to "charge" more, in spite of giving better odds. this is prolly a weakness of mine now because i am so paranoid about taking away drawing odds.

i am sure you are right, i just want to better understand why...of course, i'm sure i could just walk into my bedroom and read about it in SSHE, but this way is more fun...lol.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

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euphoricism
Old 07-06-2007, 06:41 PM #5 (permalink)  
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The distinction here is charging more vs protecting. They are very different approaches to a hand.

Betting out and praying someone raises is a much better line than check/calling. Note that if no one raises you get the exact same amount of money in the pot as you did ithe way you played it, BUT, if someone DOES raise you're charging everyone after them two. Thats your only shot at protection in this spot.

But you didn't do that, and by checking you've eliminated your chances of protecting your hand and your goal is simply to get as much money in the pot as possible while youre still ahead. Thats charging.

Let me restate my original post in a better way, though: HORRIBLE SPOT TO C/R. If no one shows strength preflop (no one raised prefop) you should almost NEVER go for a checkraise. Because its so common for it to just check through. This is a *must bet out* spot.
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euphoricism
Old 07-06-2007, 06:42 PM #6 (permalink)  
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And no, I'm not folding the river. If I was CO I could facing a bettor and a caller, but since you have to act first, well, sucks to be you
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Chopper
Old 07-06-2007, 09:04 PM #7 (permalink)  
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got it.

thanks.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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