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euphoricism
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05-11-2005, 03:22 PM
Post subject: Problems with Reads
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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I think a major detrimental factor to my play is my reads. Or, well, lack of reads. I'm not sure I'm looking for the right thing.
So help me out here, what do YOU most often look for in your reads of a player?
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Multiple random thoughts
It sounds corny, but seriously look for a tell right when opp glances at the flop. They WILL do obvious stuff, like sigh, when they miss. Sidenote: the most important player to study is the one two spots to your left. It's hisher big blind you'll be stealing (esp. in NL).
Online your reads mostly come from betting patterns. In limit it's even more limited. heh.
A great many limit players exhibit the pattern: if they PF raise, they bet out the flop whatever it is. I personally like checkraising on the flop rather than waiting for the turn when I detect this pattern and stumble into a nice hand.
It's 'cause my hand doesn't have to be as nice. Say you've got KT on a T-high flop, and opp raised pf. You check, he bets, and you're pretty sure he's on overcards only.
A CR will frequently get you a check on the turn. And your bet there will frequently get you the (admittedly not real big) pot. Be happy; TPGK is nothing to write home about. If opp checkraises you on the turn you can easily muck. The "fancy" play -- waiting for the turn to CR -- pretty much requires you to have 2pr or better, esp. at low stakes.
Another pattern is that many people will call any damn thing on the flop and get much tighter on the turn. This is the reason for the advice to keep firing away until you get raised.
When you get raised it's often worth it to call down, drop a few chips, and note the information about what this opp was chasing for and what heshe hit.
You also see a lot of people who just check-call all day long with any pocket pair.
These are pretty basic ones; I bet other guys here know some better ones.
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Yeldud
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 149
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I will look for betting patterns. What do they raise with pre-flop, pocket pairs, suited connectors, etc. and what do they limp with Axs, etc. Also, from what position do they raise/limp in from. PT works great for helping you sort through this.
Also, I look for use of the "auto bet" or "raise any" function. Many times when a player hits a monster they will hit that "raise any" feature.
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If you put all your faith in the river, you are up shit's creek
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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i started using gametime with poker tracker ... i seek out players who play above 40% of their hands, and usually fold easily dominated hands to people under 20%
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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whenever i see an interesting showdown, i immediately pull up the hand history and see who raised pre flop, who cold called with offsuit crap, who chased a gutshot against the odds, etc. then i use the player notes feature to indicate who are the fishy calling stations, who are the TAGGs, and who are the passives who only wake up with the nuts. this helps later on when i'm the hand with them.
ChezJ
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
whenever i see an interesting showdown, i immediately pull up the hand history and see who raised pre flop, who cold called with offsuit crap, who chased a gutshot against the odds, etc. then i use the player notes feature to indicate who are the fishy calling stations, who are the TAGGs, and who are the passives who only wake up with the nuts. this helps later on when i'm the hand with them.
ChezJ
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This is what my PT/gametime+ does but sometimes I’ll use this method also if they do something the stats don't match up with constantly... PT/gametime+ can give you extra information on the player on top of your notes or what you might have already seen…
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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PT tells you if someone chased a gutshot or cold called with 85?
say i have AJ and the board is QJ3. if i'm betting and only one guy calls me, he could have a Q or a J or a 3 or KK or a pocket pair. say the turn is a 5. i bet again and he calls again. now do i slow down on the river or bet again? it depends on my read.
if i have a note on the guy saying that he is a suckout specialist who will chase any gutshot or backdoor draw, and the river is a Q, i'll bet again because he probably doesn't have shit. but if i have a note that the guy is a passive calling station who doesn't know how to protect his hand, i'll check because he probably has Q3.
another example. say i have AQ but the guy to my right raises pre flop. so i muck. he rams to the river and shows 44 unimproved. then i keep watching and i realize he never raises pre flop with anything but pocket pairs. you better believe i'm playing my AQ next time he raises. in fact, i'm 3-betting to isolate and pwn his ass.
i don't think PT gives this kind of qualitative info. if so, then i was not aware.
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honsheung
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 153
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
PT tells you if someone chased a gutshot or cold called with 85?
say i have AJ and the board is QJ3. if i'm betting and only one guy calls me, he could have a Q or a J or a 3 or KK or a pocket pair. say the turn is a 5. i bet again and he calls again. now do i slow down on the river or bet again? it depends on my read.
if i have a note on the guy saying that he is a suckout specialist who will chase any gutshot or backdoor draw, and the river is a Q, i'll bet again because he probably doesn't have shit. but if i have a note that the guy is a passive calling station who doesn't know how to protect his hand, i'll check because he probably has Q3.
another example. say i have AQ but the guy to my right raises pre flop. so i muck. he rams to the river and shows 44 unimproved. then i keep watching and i realize he never raises pre flop with anything but pocket pairs. you better believe i'm playing my AQ next time he raises. in fact, i'm 3-betting to isolate and pwn his ass.
i don't think PT gives this kind of qualitative info. if so, then i was not aware.
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for guys who raise with only pocket pairs, what are the hands that should 3bet on him?
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by honsheung
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
PT tells you if someone chased a gutshot or cold called with 85?
say i have AJ and the board is QJ3. if i'm betting and only one guy calls me, he could have a Q or a J or a 3 or KK or a pocket pair. say the turn is a 5. i bet again and he calls again. now do i slow down on the river or bet again? it depends on my read.
if i have a note on the guy saying that he is a suckout specialist who will chase any gutshot or backdoor draw, and the river is a Q, i'll bet again because he probably doesn't have shit. but if i have a note that the guy is a passive calling station who doesn't know how to protect his hand, i'll check because he probably has Q3.
another example. say i have AQ but the guy to my right raises pre flop. so i muck. he rams to the river and shows 44 unimproved. then i keep watching and i realize he never raises pre flop with anything but pocket pairs. you better believe i'm playing my AQ next time he raises. in fact, i'm 3-betting to isolate and pwn his ass.
i don't think PT gives this kind of qualitative info. if so, then i was not aware.
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for guys who raise with only pocket pairs, what are the hands that should 3bet on him?
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if he is going to bet with as low as 44 preflop, a good starting hands like AA KK QQ JJ TT AK AQ AJ should be sufficient to beat him or outdraw him, but play cautiously, he still will get KK and AA as often as you and me.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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honsheung
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 153
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Element187
Quote:
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Originally Posted by honsheung
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
PT tells you if someone chased a gutshot or cold called with 85?
say i have AJ and the board is QJ3. if i'm betting and only one guy calls me, he could have a Q or a J or a 3 or KK or a pocket pair. say the turn is a 5. i bet again and he calls again. now do i slow down on the river or bet again? it depends on my read.
if i have a note on the guy saying that he is a suckout specialist who will chase any gutshot or backdoor draw, and the river is a Q, i'll bet again because he probably doesn't have shit. but if i have a note that the guy is a passive calling station who doesn't know how to protect his hand, i'll check because he probably has Q3.
another example. say i have AQ but the guy to my right raises pre flop. so i muck. he rams to the river and shows 44 unimproved. then i keep watching and i realize he never raises pre flop with anything but pocket pairs. you better believe i'm playing my AQ next time he raises. in fact, i'm 3-betting to isolate and pwn his ass.
i don't think PT gives this kind of qualitative info. if so, then i was not aware.
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for guys who raise with only pocket pairs, what are the hands that should 3bet on him?
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if he is going to bet with as low as 44 preflop, a good starting hands like AA KK QQ JJ TT AK AQ AJ should be sufficient to beat him or outdraw him, but play cautiously, he still will get KK and AA as often as you and me. |
I will opt for a 88 or above to 3bets. Not to mention A8 to Ak, half a chance he has 77 or lower, haha.
Can beat him.
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