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Damian

09-19-2006, 04:27 PM Post subject: Problems moving up stakes

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Manchester UK

Posts: 24

I wonder if anyone can help me. I apogise If I dont give you enough info on this, but lets see. I'm fairly new to FTR, but Ive found the tips and articles enormously interesting.

I'm new to Poker as a whole, Ive been playing about 4 months. Started at home games, then played freeplay online. I started playing micro limit hold'em about 2 months ago.
I initially had great success playing 5c/10c limit at Planet and then Pacific. I played about 15 sessions, of on average 90 hands, and only lost one session. On average I won 18-20 times the BB. I played aggressively, started fairly loosely (playing between 40 and 50% of starting hands) then tightened right down to 30%.

I then thought it'd be a good time to move up stakes. I started to play the 25c/50c limit tables. I played about 8 sessions. And lost EVERY single time. This time I lost between $8 and $12 each and every session. I stuck to playing between 28% and 30%of starting hands. Which I know isnt THAT tight, but there were plenty of looser players at the tables. But even when I searched out a really loose table - same result.

I know there is nothing to go on there. But I thought a few experienced players may be able to suggest POSSIBLE leaks, that I can look into on PokerTracker - as to why the change upwards has had such a massive impact on my game.

Many Thanks.

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LimpinAintEZ

09-19-2006, 04:41 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice

Posts: 591

i don't see how you can get away with playing that many hands in Limit - 30-40%, regardless of what everyone else is playing (this is important, other players will usually be playing poorly - don't join them) is way too high to be successful over any length of time playing limit - Try tightening up big time to like 20-MAYBE 25% and pay a lot of attention to position...Limit is about showing down the best hand - if your seeing that many flops, you are playing too many marginal cards...

post some poker tracker #'s for us though - that would help - like position stats might be a good indicator -

this space intentionally left blank

Xanadu

09-19-2006, 05:34 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

25-30% can be good if the table is very loose and if the table is very passive preflop and if you are very good postflop. Otherwise, you should be playing more like 22% like Limpin said. The rest of the table needs to be seeing at least 60% and be passive preflop to be playing as loosely as 25%+.

NWNewell

09-20-2006, 03:55 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL

Posts: 283

Ok,

First of, 15x90=1350 hands. This is nowhere near enough hands to accurately determine how well you are doing (granted, you may be doing well enough to win at 5/10cent but probably not playing as well as your 1350 hands indicate). You could easily be running well. And conversely the numbere of hands played at 25/50cents is even worse. You could have easily been running bad and actually are playing better than your win rate would indicate.

But from what I've gathered about your poker experience from your post, you trying to get way ahead of yourself. (and while good advise, I think the poker tracker suggestions are even a little head of what you need.) You will be able to improve from where you are now in a much easier way!

This is what I strongly recommend:

A. Stay at the 5/10cent limits!

B. Buy and, not just read, STUDY "Small Stakes Hold'Em (Win Big with Expert Play)" by David Sklansky and Ed Miller!!!!!!!!!!!! Buy it and read it competely before playing another hand of poker!

C. Continue playing at the 5/10cent limits until your Bankroll is at least 250 (better to be 300) times the BigBet at the limit you are trying to move up to. i.e. to play 25/50 cent should have a $125-$150 Bankroll.

If you already have at least a $125 bankroll, STILL stay at 5/10 until you completely read "Small Stakes Hold'Em" (SSHE), and become accustome to using the Starting Hands Charts outlined in the book and grasp (not nessecairly completely comprehend or memorize) the outs and drawing odds ideas. After you'rve read SSHE and have played a for a couple weeks by the books guidelines, and if you have the $125 (or more) Bankroll, you will be ready to give the 25/50 cent limits a shot.

But even when you move up to the 25/50cent limits, keep studying that book! I mostly play at $5/$10 limits and I'm actually in the process of re-reading that book.

I would give up some playing time to study the book. You'll make more playing 10 hours well, than 15 hours poorly! In fact, it wouldn't be a bad idea to (after you read it through once already) take every 3rd or 4th time you plan to play poker, sit down and study a chapter instead of playing.

Basically, you need to wear out the damn book while working your way up trough the micro limits, and have to by a send copy to continue studying while playing through the $1/$2 to $3/$6 limits.

My "Operation Come Back" Thread: Interupted.

Damian

09-20-2006, 07:55 AM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Manchester UK

Posts: 24

Thanks Limpin, Xanadu and NWNewall for that sound advice. I have Sklansky's book on my shopping list. I'll pick it up today. Just read Hellmuth's PPLTP up untill now.

It sounds like I'm still too loose then. I'll buy the book, read it, and then stay at the 5c/10c tables for now - whilst I tighten down to 20 %.

For interest value, I will post some Poker Tracker stats - to see if any of you can recognise any early patterns. What kind of info will be usefull? Xanadu mentioned Position Stats. Any other stats?

Damian

09-20-2006, 08:38 AM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Manchester UK

Posts: 24

Right, I have a few hands here that I'd been studying recently anyway. I have five of the hands that lost me the most chips from my last game at 25/50c. My screen name is Dammen.

HAND 1 - 2 3 suited.
***** Pacific Hand History for Game 39022269 *****
$0.25/$0.5 Limit Hold'em - *** 09 14 20:35:03 2006
Table Armada Martini (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 10: sylvir ( $23.5 )
Seat 1: Vladal ( $14.95 )
Seat 2: zia2005 ( $29.51 )
Seat 3: Dammen ( $10.51 )
Seat 4: rossboz ( $17.22 )
Seat 5: Gapman81 ( $28.35 )
Seat 6: mvicke43 ( $15.29 )
Seat 7: SLIM2975 ( $7.95 )
Seat 8: GRL1951 ( $46.64 )
Seat 9: noslon69 ( $34.03 )
Vladal posts small blind [$0.12].
zia2005 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dammen [ 2h 3h ]
Dammen calls [$0.25].
rossboz calls [$0.25].
Gapman81 calls [$0.25].
mvicke43 folds.
SLIM2975 folds.
GRL1951 raises [$0.5].
noslon69 calls [$0.5].
sylvir folds.
Vladal calls [$0.38].
zia2005 folds.
Dammen calls [$0.25].
rossboz calls [$0.25].
Gapman81 calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, 2d, 8h ]
Vladal checks.
Dammen bets [$0.25].
rossboz calls [$0.25].
Gapman81 calls [$0.25].
GRL1951 raises [$0.5].
noslon69 calls [$0.5].
Vladal folds.
Dammen raises [$0.5].
rossboz calls [$0.5].
Gapman81 folds.
GRL1951 calls [$0.25].
noslon69 calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
Dammen bets [$0.5].
rossboz folds.
GRL1951 raises [$1].
noslon69 folds.
Dammen calls [$0.5].
** Dealing River ** [ 4h ]
Dammen bets [$0.5].
GRL1951 raises [$1].
Dammen raises [$1].
GRL1951 calls [$0.5].
** Summary **
Dammen shows [ 2h 3h ].
GRL1951 shows [ Ah Ac ].
GRL1951 collected [$11.2].

HAND 2 - 99

***** Pacific Hand History for Game 39022563 *****
$0.25/$0.5 Limit Hold'em - *** 09 14 20:39:48 2006
Table Armada Martini (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 10: sylvir ( $23 )
Seat 2: zia2005 ( $28.01 )
Seat 3: Dammen ( $6.39 )
Seat 4: rossboz ( $14.97 )
Seat 5: fewy ( $15 )
Seat 6: mvicke43 ( $14.29 )
Seat 7: SLIM2975 ( $7.95 )
Seat 8: GRL1951 ( $60.46 )
Seat 9: noslon69 ( $30.03 )
rossboz posts small blind [$0.12].
fewy posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dammen [ 9s 9d ]
mvicke43 folds.
SLIM2975 calls [$0.25].
GRL1951 folds.
noslon69 folds.
sylvir folds.
zia2005 folds.
Dammen raises [$0.5].
rossboz folds.
fewy calls [$0.25].
SLIM2975 calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ad, 5d, 8h ]
fewy checks.
SLIM2975 bets [$0.25].
Dammen calls [$0.25].
fewy folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8c ]
SLIM2975 bets [$0.5].
Dammen calls [$0.5].
** Dealing River ** [ Kd ]
SLIM2975 bets [$0.5].
Dammen calls [$0.5].
** Summary **
SLIM2975 shows [ As 7c ].
Dammen mucks.
SLIM2975 collected [$3.87].

HAND 3 0 AK

***** Pacific Hand History for Game 39023905 *****
$0.25/$0.5 Limit Hold'em - *** 09 14 21:09:35 2006
Table Armada Martini (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 10: sylvir ( $23.82 )
Seat 1: PedaPan ( $15.97 )
Seat 3: Dammen ( $2.79 )
Seat 4: rossboz ( $14.43 )
Seat 5: fewy ( $12.52 )
Seat 6: mvicke43 ( $26.63 )
Seat 7: SLIM2975 ( $7.24 )
Seat 8: Evildish ( $19.25 )
Seat 9: noslon69 ( $21.63 )
Evildish posts small blind [$0.12].
noslon69 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dammen [ Kh Ah ]
sylvir folds.
PedaPan folds.
Dammen calls [$0.25].
rossboz folds.
fewy calls [$0.25].
mvicke43 calls [$0.25].
SLIM2975 folds.
Evildish folds.
noslon69 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ad, 2d, 9h ]
noslon69 checks.
Dammen bets [$0.25].
fewy folds.
mvicke43 folds.
noslon69 calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qh ]
noslon69 checks.
Dammen bets [$0.5].
noslon69 calls [$0.5].
** Dealing River ** [ 8c ]
noslon69 checks.
Dammen bets [$0.5].
noslon69 calls [$0.5].
** Summary **
Dammen shows [ Kh Ah ].
noslon69 shows [ 2c Qd ].
noslon69 collected [$3.42].

HAND 4 - AQ

***** Pacific Hand History for Game 39023644 *****
$0.25/$0.5 Limit Hold'em - *** 09 14 21:03:31 2006
Table Armada Martini (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 10: sylvir ( $22.6 )
Seat 1: PedaPan ( $14.5 )
Seat 3: Dammen ( $5.54 )
Seat 4: rossboz ( $16.8 )
Seat 5: fewy ( $13.02 )
Seat 6: mvicke43 ( $27 )
Seat 7: SLIM2975 ( $5.74 )
Seat 8: Evildish ( $19.5 )
Seat 9: noslon69 ( $20.38 )
Dammen posts small blind [$0.12].
rossboz posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dammen [ Ad Qh ]
fewy folds.
mvicke43 folds.
SLIM2975 folds.
Evildish folds.
noslon69 raises [$0.5].
sylvir folds.
PedaPan folds.
Dammen calls [$0.38].
rossboz folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, 9s, 7c ]
Dammen bets [$0.25].
noslon69 calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6s ]
Dammen bets [$0.5].
noslon69 calls [$0.5].
** Dealing River ** [ 10s ]
Dammen bets [$0.5].
noslon69 raises [$1].
Dammen calls [$0.5].
** Summary **
noslon69 shows [ Qs As ].
Dammen mucks.
noslon69 collected [$4.5].

HAND 5 - T 8s

***** Pacific Hand History for Game 39023363 *****
$0.25/$0.5 Limit Hold'em - *** 09 14 20:58:25 2006
Table Armada Martini (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 10: sylvir ( $23.6 )
Seat 3: Dammen ( $5.04 )
Seat 4: rossboz ( $16.8 )
Seat 5: fewy ( $14.02 )
Seat 6: mvicke43 ( $23.55 )
Seat 7: SLIM2975 ( $6.24 )
Seat 8: GRL1951 ( $65.61 )
Seat 9: noslon69 ( $20.28 )
GRL1951 posts small blind [$0.12].
noslon69 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dammen [ 10s 8s ]
sylvir folds.
Dammen calls [$0.25].
rossboz folds.
fewy folds.
mvicke43 calls [$0.25].
SLIM2975 folds.
GRL1951 calls [$0.13].
noslon69 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 6d, 8c ]
GRL1951 checks.
noslon69 checks.
Dammen bets [$0.25].
mvicke43 raises [$0.5].
GRL1951 calls [$0.5].
noslon69 calls [$0.5].
Dammen calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3c ]
GRL1951 checks.
noslon69 checks.
Dammen checks.
mvicke43 bets [$0.5].
GRL1951 calls [$0.5].
noslon69 folds.
Dammen calls [$0.5].
** Dealing River ** [ Jc ]
GRL1951 checks.
Dammen checks.
mvicke43 bets [$0.5].
GRL1951 folds.
Dammen calls [$0.5].
** Summary **
mvicke43 shows [ 7c 7d ].
Dammen mucks.
mvicke43 collected [$5.2].

Damian

09-20-2006, 08:55 AM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Manchester UK

Posts: 24

I've made a few notes on the hands above - a few of them were played badly - in particular:

Not folding the 9's to an Ace on the board.
Trying to slowplay my AKs, letting the BB in with a poor hand

But I'd be interested to see what insight you can give me.

Anosmic

09-20-2006, 09:35 AM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Sweden

Posts: 999

Okay here's my comments.

Hand 1:
Normally I'd recommend folding this pre-flop from early position.

There's every chance that people will raise the pot after you (and have position on you) and this hand is at best a late postion limper, you don't want to be paying much to see a flop.

Once you hit you've got to be aware of the constant peril of hitting 2p with connectors: the board is well co-ordinated. Plus your pairs are so low.

Your opponent lucked out with the straight, but your opponent had 5 outs (A or 8) after the flop and 12 after the turn (A, 8, 4, 5).
Once the board is showing 2345 you have to be worried that the guy who raised pf has an ace.
Making both your bet and your 3-bet outrageous imho.

hand 2-

HAND 2 - 99
Yeah, bit risky betting into an opp with just 99 with an A showing.
Here you need a good read on your opponent.

HAND 3 - AK
Well he hit his second pair. But of course you may have won this preflop if you'd raised and he'd certainly have trouble calling your flop bet with just the 2!
Raise preflop.

HAND 4 - AQ
Looks okay, runner-runner flush is hard to do much about.
Cold calling pre-flop seems risky. Raising would tell you more.

Otherwise I don't see it being really bad to go down with TPTK to a runner-runner.

HAND 5 - T 8s
T8s? UTG+1? Fold!!!

But okay, so you see the flop: what's T8s for? Straights and flushes. Not TPWK + gutshot. Certainly not with such a draw heavy board.
I think I'd fold when there's the raise and all the calls before it comes back to you. Maybe, just maybe it's worth seeing what the turn brings, but then fold.

Blah blah Op Blah blah

Faith in Jesus Christ is +EV. That is all.

Damian

09-20-2006, 01:32 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Manchester UK

Posts: 24

Anosmic - thankyou.

Thats usefull insight.

NWNewell

09-20-2006, 02:20 PM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL

Posts: 283

Hand 1: What Anosmic said.

Your pair value is terrible. You are not going to hit much better often enough. Your straight and flush value is somewhat crippled because it is very possible for some else to hold a higher straight or flush.

Fold all small and middle suited connectors from early position.

A good guideline is (and you will find it almost the same as SSHE guideline):
Limp from early position with at least JTs. Limp from middle postion with 89s or better. Limp from lat position with 56s or better. Of course if there is a lot of raising and 3-beting before the flop, you should tighten up much more than this as the lower end of these ranges don't play when you have to pay that much to see the flop. It is safe to say you should never play lower suited connected connecters that I just stated (unless you are in the small or big blind and there are a TON of people in the pot... I almost never play 32s).

Hand 2: What Anosmic said.
You showed strength before the flop with your raise.
So for someone to lead out on the flop ahead of you, they are telling you that they are no longer worried about your preflop raise. Typically indicating that they hit the flop pretty well. They could be betting the flush draw. Also, the could be betting the 8, but that would be kind of silly (so I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that either). The pot is not real big, so it is not worth it to take the slim change that you are ahead (and even if you are, you are pretty voulnerable to overcards). You should fold the flop.

TIP: A safe rule is that when you are the preflop raiser, and someone in front of you leads out into a multi-way pot, they usually hit their hand. Unless you have a good redraw to try to take back the lead (and with 2 outs, you don't), you need to give up and fold right away.

Hand 3: What Anosmic said.
Way to passive preflop. Raise, and RE-RAISE AKs every chance you get from any position preflop (there is some debate fro some people about calling a raise or 3-betting in certain situations, but both are profitable, just one might be more profitable than the other... but lets stay away from that for now, just RAISE AKs every chance you get preflop).

With the preflop raise, you probably would have won. You don't want to let the Blinds in cheaply and give them a chance to get lucky. it would have been a big mistake for Q2o to call a raise. It was a mistake for him to call your flop bet (and would have been harder to call if you raise preflop because he would give you more credit for a good hand). Not much you can do from that point on. No way to put him on two pair when he just calls down.

You're big pre-flop mistake just snowballed. Raise next time! And don't worry about not getting callers from your preflop raise, you'll get plenty from the micro limits. And it is always better to win a bunch of small pots than loose a big pot.

Hand 4: What Anosmic said.
With the preflop raiser being in a later position, your AQ could be about 50/50 or better. So, I agree you could re-raise and get a little more info from the raiser (especially when it is heads up). If the raise came from an earlier position, it gets tougher (from middle position, maybe a call and try to check raise if the flop if you hit; from early position, you should really think about folding)

They way this hand played out post flop is pretty much just tough luck. You were all set for a split pot on the flop, but he got lucky and hit his runner, runner. The river is tough, but but you should really try to fold this one. When an opponent is calling down and suddenly you are raised on the river, your opponent usually improved and will almost always be able to beat what was top pair before the river card (i.e., hit two pair, flush, straight, or Queen was the highest card on the board and an Ace fell to give him a new top pair that will now beat your seconded pair of Queens). So, if you don't have better than top pair, it is almost always correct to fold to a river raise.

Hand 5:
Similar to my advice for Hand 1.

From early position you shouldn't play suited one gappers smaller than QTs. J9s from middle-to-late postion, and maybe T8s from late postion if there are aready a lot of limpers. Fold all suited one gappers except for big cards when the pot is raised (AQs, KJs & QTs from late position when you have several callers already).

My "Operation Come Back" Thread: Interupted.

Xanadu

09-20-2006, 05:22 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

23s is so bad that you only play it when you can check the BB, and grudgingly from the SB with at least several limpers. Limping it UTG is just throwing your money away. You have to play according to your position. Think about this: KQo is only marginally better to limp or raise UTG than it is to fold. If KQo is almost a fold, how can you even think about playing a bottom 10% hand like 23s? You need to change your opening requirements by position. UTG at a full table you should be seeing somewhere in the range of 6-8% of flops. Now this changes at a very loose and passive table, where you can actually limp a lot of hands from EP, but even at stakes as low as .25/.50, a table this loose is hard to find. It would take forever to explain everything, so just go get SSH.

LimpinAintEZ

09-20-2006, 05:54 PM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice

Posts: 591

the guys are giving good advice above - you want to play your strong hands fast (AK) and fold garbage, especially in bad position - I would never recommend playing 2,3, but at best you want to pay only 1/2 a bet from the SB maybe -

As for the bankroll requirements - I know what everyone is saying about bankroll being critical, and it is - I also believe that at low limits you can get by fine with 200BB's - Once you get to playing more often and become a better player, you are going to have swings and you should follow the 300bb's suggestions (like if your playing 1/2 limit or above) - You want to be extremely comfortable and always make the best play and being worried about the money or getting "sucked out" will kill your game - this is when bankroll is important - I don't think 5c/10c is a good use of time - If you can deposit $100 or so and play 25c/50c limit, i think this is plenty of cushion - BUT, if that $100 is a lot of money, and not easily replaceable, then maybe do the 5c/10c - I just think you would get the same experience playing the Play Money tables as you would doing those -

this space intentionally left blank

Damian

09-21-2006, 09:48 AM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Manchester UK

Posts: 24

Thats good advice fella's. Thanks very much, I appreciate it all.

I take your points about 2 3s. It was a silly play UTG.

Interesting point about 5c/10c being about the same experience levels as FreePlay Limpin. You may be right there. It's a good idea charging up the Bankroll and giving 25/50c another go. I think one of the reasons I fell at that level last time is possibly due to the short bankroll - and subconsciously not being as aggressive as I was at 5c/10c.

I have a great hand to show you from last night.(Well, was'nt that great. I lost!) I'll post it in a new topic - I'd love to hear your comments. Especially on when in the hand you can put my two opponents on a hand.

pokerfanatic

09-21-2006, 02:27 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

FR limit hold'em you should break 20% VPIP, i haven't played FR in a log time but if you follow the SSH hand chart playing low limit you'll run around 16/9 (maybe can't remember now) but if i do recall 16/8 to 18/12 will win you money at super low levels... someone correct me if my numbers are off... i play only SHLHE and i know the correct stats numbers for it...

“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord

NWNewell

09-21-2006, 06:24 PM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL

Posts: 283

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfanatic

I would say you are pretty accurate on that.

But as a beginner, I would want to start with tight, solid fundumentals. I think as a beginner (and even myself, with what I consider novice experience and skill), it is much easier to mis-step and get carried away when trying to play for 20%-24% VPIP.

We need to learn to walk before we can run!

My "Operation Come Back" Thread: Interupted.

pokerfanatic

09-21-2006, 07:46 PM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWNewell

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfanatic

well at FR i don't see why you would need to play 20-24 VPIP, if 16-18 beats the game solidly don't fix something that's not broken...

once you get to a point, IMO you HAVE to learn 6 max... FR just becomes to much a rock garden... I used to play the 10/20 FR game and WOW it was literally a bunch of Taggs sitting around trying to push each other off hands... and it was ALWAYS 2-3 handed it was very rare to see 4+ to a flop... so it played like 6max post flop anyways...

it wasn't the easiest of games to beat... thus why i stopped playing it, that and i went on a down swing from hell...

but i think up to about 2/4 you can get away with playing FR maybe even 3/6... as nehmer will tell you i don't think he ever switched over to SHLHE... his win rate probably about 1bb/100 or so... at 6max at the same level a good player can expect 1.5-2bb/100... so it's helpful once you get stuck and start struggling with FR try drooping down a level and playing 6max...

like if you can beat 2/4 FR but not 3/6 FR for example play 2/4 6max see how it goes... that's my advice at least... and i'm not telling you to jump straight into 6max either have a solid FR game that can be adjusted to 6max style...

as you put it, you must walk before you can run...

NWNewell

09-22-2006, 03:16 PM

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL

Posts: 283

I agree that you don't need to break 20% VPIP at FR (especailly at lower limits). But you're last post said something to the effect that you at FR you should break 20%. And while you can add some marginal hands pre-flop plays to get you over 20%, think you need to know how to play those well post flop (hense why you say you need to lear 6max! lol)

Pokerfanatic, that is an excellent point about 6max.

I that is probably why I'm not further in my poker development that I hoped by this point. My post flop play is not as good as it should be. I play monstly $5/$10 and some $10/$20, and am just now trying 6max.

I agree trying 6max at a given limit before moving up is probably a good idea. Altough, do you think you would get as much of a benifit when moving through the micro limits (put to $1/$2 or $2/$4)

Good point! Thanks for the reply!

My "Operation Come Back" Thread: Interupted.

pokerfanatic

09-22-2006, 03:39 PM

#18 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

for me i have been playing 1/2 and 2/4 6max a lot lately on party actually... and i think that i'm doing this because i have played for so long at 6max that my game has become to the point i get board too easily playing full ring... i see a lot more hands per hour at 6max and it keeps me on my toes... 22/15 will crash the damn 1/2 and 2/4 on party... and give you experience with tough post flop spots given you are playing more marginal hands against some real dumb asses and the occasional decent player...

i have been playing with the idea of doing small stakes limit short handed coaching... both to improve my game and to try and help newer people to 6 max get bettor and think more along the lines of short handed limit...

so we'll see i havn't determined if i want to spend a lot of time coaching or just occasionally coach so we'll see here in a couple weeks what i'm gonna do...

NWNewell

09-22-2006, 05:59 PM Post subject: Coaching, or more videos would be awsome!

#19 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL

Posts: 283

Coaching would be cool.

I saw you Video and I think you could help a lot of people out!

If you don't want to dedicate a lot of time to coaching, I think making a video once a week, a month, or want ever you schedule permits would be awesome!! (maybe ins some sort of lesson progression oriented manner)

My "Operation Come Back" Thread: Interupted.

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