|
StinkyBeaver
|
09-10-2005, 04:49 PM
Post subject: a preflop question for once...
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
|
|
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is Button with K , J .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO raises hero..?
Kjo is a normally a fold against a raise, but this hand was going to be multiway can you call simply b/c of implied odds.?
I folded since I figured that most hands that raises here have me beat.
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Nehmer
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
|
|
KJo does not play well multiway especially in raised pots, so this is a very easy fold.
|
|
|
|
StinkyBeaver
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
|
|
ok nice just checking
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Fold unless CO is a maniac. If that's the case I'm torn between a cold-call and 3-bet.
|
|
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
KJo is probably the worst hand to cold call with of all the cold callable hands out there.
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need KJs to cold call in this spot.
|
|
|
|
jmontis
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
KJo is probably the worst hand to cold call with of all the cold callable hands out there.
|
agreed. I rank KJ just slightly above JT and QJ
|
|
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jmontis
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
KJo is probably the worst hand to cold call with of all the cold callable hands out there.
|
agreed. I rank KJ just slightly above JT and QJ |
The same way you rank AQ slightly above KQ and KJ? I'd say that's common sense.
|
|
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jmontis
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
KJo is probably the worst hand to cold call with of all the cold callable hands out there.
|
agreed. I rank KJ just slightly above JT and QJ |
The same way you rank AQ slightly above KQ and KJ? I'd say that's common sense. |
I'd rather cold call with JTs than with KJs...
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
|~|ypermegachi
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jmontis
agreed. I rank KJ just slightly above JT and QJ
|
ranking hands without regard to the pot odds and number of opponents is a leak.
JT and QJ are vastly superior in big multiway pots.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by hypermegachi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jmontis
agreed. I rank KJ just slightly above JT and QJ
|
ranking hands without regard to the pot odds and number of opponents is a leak.
JT and QJ are vastly superior in big multiway pots. |
No, not really. You have to assume the raiser and the cold-callers are tight to come to this conclusion. If they are super-loose and raise/call with any hand KJo is a better hand :O
|
|
|
|
Xanadu
|
|
Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
|
|
The more people enter the pot, the more unsuited high card hands go down in value. KJo becomes a speculative hand once several people enter the pot, and you should be less inclined to cold call with it the more people enter. I really don't think this is ever a cold-calling hand ... its a fold unless you think you can profitably raise with it. I wouldn't raise unless the raiser raises rather loosely. The only way I'm playing this is if I think a raise will chase out at least 2 of the limpers and the raiser is loose enough that most of the time I won't be dominated. To make this raise, I want to know one or two of the limpers will lay down AJo or KQo to a re-raise. This is a fold unless you really know what you are doing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xanadu
The more people enter the pot, the more unsuited high card hands go down in value. KJo becomes a speculative hand once several people enter the pot, and you should be less inclined to cold call with it the more people enter. I really don't think this is ever a cold-calling hand ... its a fold unless you think you can profitably raise with it. I wouldn't raise unless the raiser raises rather loosely. The only way I'm playing this is if I think a raise will chase out at least 2 of the limpers and the raiser is loose enough that most of the time I won't be dominated. To make this raise, I want to know one or two of the limpers will lay down AJo or KQo to a re-raise. This is a fold unless you really know what you are doing.
|
No this is actually just a fold every time... unless you're "making a move"
|
|
|
|
|~|ypermegachi
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iopq
No, not really. You have to assume the raiser and the cold-callers are tight to come to this conclusion. If they are super-loose and raise/call with any hand KJo is a better hand :O
|
i don't care who the raisers are or what their raising standards are. JT and QJ make more straights than KJ and that's the only hand you can expect to take down a huge multiway pot, not a pair of kings with a jack kicker.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by hypermegachi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iopq
No, not really. You have to assume the raiser and the cold-callers are tight to come to this conclusion. If they are super-loose and raise/call with any hand KJo is a better hand :O
|
i don't care who the raisers are or what their raising standards are. JT and QJ make more straights than KJ and that's the only hand you can expect to take down a huge multiway pot, not a pair of kings with a jack kicker. |
but it's a 1%-2% difference usually as shown by pokerstove
so in fact just fold them all
|
|
|
|
|~|ypermegachi
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iopq
but it's a 1%-2% difference usually as shown by pokerstove
so in fact just fold them all
|
there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. pokerstove isn't good at all for estimating the equity of speculative hands because often you're not putting in a single bet more after a crappy flop comes. it also can't take into consideration how much money you lose after you ram and jam and miss, or when you hit.
sure, you can look at it from the standpoint that it's only 1% on the grand scheme of things. but you can also look at it like this...KJ makes 2 straights. QJ can make 3, while JT can make 4. with QJ you just increased your straight potential by 50%, and by 100% with JT.
|
|
|
|
jmontis
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
|
|
Thread got hi-jacked, yes offsuit broadway hands are garbage multiway against a raise, and yes JTs and QJs are clearly multiway pot hands. I didn't say KJo > JTs/QJs, I said KJo > JTo/QJo (without the o's) take it easy killer.
My question is, how big does the pot have to be to cold call with a hand like QJs/JTs, 4 way? 5?
|
|
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jmontis
Thread got hi-jacked, yes offsuit broadway hands are garbage multiway against a raise, and yes JTs and QJs are clearly multiway pot hands. I didn't say KJo > JTs/QJs, I said KJo > JTo/QJo (without the o's) take it easy killer.
My question is, how big does the pot have to be to cold call with a hand like QJs/JTs, 4 way? 5?
|
I'm cold calling KQs, KJs, QJs, JTs with a raisor and 3 cold callers in front. with 2 cold callers, possibly KQs. Qjs and JTs, with 1 cold caller, maybe KQs depending on the opponent.
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
jmontis
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
I'm cold calling KQs, KJs, QJs, JTs with a raisor and 3 cold callers in front. with 2 cold callers, possibly KQs. Qjs and JTs, with 1 cold caller, maybe KQs depending on the opponent.
|
alright, that's what im talking about
|
|
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
