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Pot sized bets in Omaha and/or Omaha8

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Gomez

02-08-2006, 03:13 AM Post subject: Pot sized bets in Omaha and/or Omaha8

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Atlantic City

Posts: 33

Ok, this is me, I play SNGs most of the time, $5, $10 on pokerstars.

When I was playing practice play money games I was winning at pot-limit Omaha hi-only. Lately I have found hi-lo much easier, and I have been stinking up the joint in PLO. So I came across an explanation of a really basic concept that I had not understood-- the pot sized bet.

I read that NOT betting the pot is very very bad, not only does it provide information about your hand, but it gives pot odds to all the draws, very very bad.

The first thing I noticed, once I got into this, is that about 80% of the people in the SNG's will not ever bet the pot. I got into trouble sometimes until I realized i didn't have to bet on the turn, but even in hi/lo I was taking down many many uncontested pots. But if I felt I had a hand on the flop, definitely a pot sized bet, if I felt I had the best hand on the river, definitely a pot sized bet, and in rare situations maybe even a pot sized preflop raise or reraise. And of course, my winning pots were fat compared to the pots won by the slowplayers.

So today I try a PLO SNG, 1 table, and I have no defense for how terribly I played. This isn't about specific hands, but while I was trying to give bad pot odds to drawing hands, the passive slow players were cleaning up. It occured to me that the advice might be more specific to ring games to maximize the profit. Since a SNG (like a MTT) is about survival, maybe passively taking what people give you is smarter than taking risks just to maximize a pot early.

Don't get me wrong, I start out tight(er) just like a holdem tourney, but in omaha I am convinced that the only hands to slow play would be along the lines of quads and Aces full! Right?

So the question is whether making potsized bets is less impotant in SNG's, in PLO. In hi lo it seems to be less troublesome, because it comes down to eliminating a couple people that maybe would have shared the lo, and often it even scares off the near nut lo only or hi only as they suddenly think they are about to be scooped. The few players that seem to play this concept seem to be the ones that are still around if I make it to the end, in hi/lo anyway. Make any sense? Comments?

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baudib

02-08-2006, 03:36 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 3,233

Seems to me that far too many times someone will call early on in a SnG with near nut low or high, when in fact there are many, many cases where you should FOLD with the nut low or high on the flop.

the problem is that when you flop the "now nuts" that is not the "immortal nuts" you will get draws calling far too often even when you pot the flop; there are simply too many cases where it is correct for a person to call a pot-sized bet (like when you have a straight and they flopped trips and flush draw and nut low draw --Ah 2h 8d 8 c on a Th 9c 8h board and you have QJ). I'd be careful about potting with such hands when you are first to act.

Coversely, if the pot is very small and it is checked to you in last position, you can pot the flop with a great deal of hands.

Playing big pots at small stakes.

TLR

02-08-2006, 09:42 AM

#3 (permalink)

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TLR is an unknown quantity at this point

my 2 cents

In ring game pot odds rule - especially in the low buy in it is hard to bluff people off pots - you want to bet hard to build the pot and to draw off chasers.

However in tournaments you have to play a bit more carefully, you need to survive and you need to control the pot size.

Pot sized bets are good to try to force people off the pot.

And early on in tournaments dont slowplay - unless you have the nuts that cannot be counterfieghted and you dont let people draw to split the pot

KoRnholio

02-08-2006, 02:41 PM

#4 (permalink)

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As always... It depends :P

I'll usually make pot-sized bets when the pot is medium or small sized (usually on the flop/turn). On the river I tend to bet 1/3-2/3 of the pot (on both my bluffs and made hands).

However, there are times where I will make a big underbet just to "test the waters" such as if I have a set or low-end straight on a scary board and I am out of position. By making a much smaller than pot bet, if someone bets the pot behind you their bet won't be substantially larger like it would have if you bet the pot amount.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Gomez

03-04-2006, 06:21 PM Post subject: let me eleaborate and show one hand

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Atlantic City

Posts: 33

OK, I guess this proves the point. I have had something like this happen a few times recently, I want to say: EVEN in this situation, should I not make the pot sized bet!? The names have been erased to protect the guilty!

Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level I (10/20) -
Seat 1: (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: ME (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: 1500 in chips)
Seat 6: 1500 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: (1500 in chips)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Me [2s 6h Jd Ad]
Me: calls 20
He: raises 40 to 60
: folds
: folds
: folds
: calls 60
: folds
: folds
: calls 40
Me: calls 40
*** FLOP *** [6c Jh Js]

Me: bets 250 (the pot)
he: raises 250 to 500

Me: raises 940 to 1440 and is all-in
He: calls 940 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [6c Jh Js] [9c]
*** RIVER *** [6c Jh Js 9c] [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Me: shows [2s 6h Jd Ad] (HI: a full house, Jacks full of Sixes)
he: shows [Kh Ah Td Jc] (HI: a full house, Jacks full of Tens)

OK, don't get me wrong, I did not HAVE to try to win this first hand of a little $5 SNG. BUT, I had the best hand when I bet it, and I seem to keep running into players that think a set or 2 pair is good enough to push all-in, when someone, ME, already has a made boat!

I am not so much asking about how to play this one hand, I should have called the flop raise, I guess. I was interested in the lo pot, which of course didn't come; I only considered this a decent hi hand after I floppped a boat!

I know this is about what you have after all the cards, I feel that I am asking my questions in a way that makes me seem even stupider than I am, but here is what I am asking:

How much of it is me hoping their hands won't catch up to mine, and how much is it that the players at such low buy-ins don't know enough to respect a pot sized bet? I admit that I wanted to punish him and take advantage of him daring to push at me when I had the best hand-- but dammit I had the best hand!

Also, as discussed before, would my play have been more reasonable in a cash game?

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