Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

All Other (Limit) Poker

  > 

Poor ladies

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
thenonsequitur
Old 05-20-2006, 12:00 AM     Post subject: Poor ladies #1 (permalink)  
thenonsequitur's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
thenonsequitur
UTG+1 is a fish, CO is a shark.

Is this just a bad beat, or did I do something wrong?

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with Q Q
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: J 4 T (9.33SB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: J (6.17BB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

River: K (9.17BB, 3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, CO raises, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to CO.

Results:
Final pot: 11.17BB
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
midas06
Old 05-20-2006, 02:15 AM #2 (permalink)  
midas06's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
midas06
I'd check/call the river against 2 opponents there
Reply With Quote
Xanadu
Old 05-20-2006, 02:02 PM #3 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
Xanadu
How can you fold on the river? Read on the opponent? Well, if he is good, don't you think he has a read on you? If this is an observant opponent, you just got bluffed over 20% of the time, and gave him more reason to take shots in the future. How can you possibly know you are beat over 92% of the time here?

Edit: Looking back at this, I guess you might be beat over 92% here because CO 3-bet preflop. If you have a good idea of his 3-betting standards. But if you are beat 92% of the time, you know it before he raises, so how can you bet the river? Basically, if you are going to fold to a raise, you shouldn't bet in this spot, and probably shouldn't bet at all, especially into 2 opponents who both raised preflop with 3 broadways (and one paired) on the board. I think the line here is either check/call or check/fold depending on reads. Who is going to call that you beat anyway? AT?
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 05-21-2006, 04:46 AM #4 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
 I agree, a check/call is a good line here.


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
thenonsequitur
Old 05-21-2006, 08:22 AM #5 (permalink)  
thenonsequitur's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
thenonsequitur
Yeah, I figured I messed up this river (which is the main reason I posted this hand), but wasn't sure what the best alternative was.

Check/call and check/fold both seem like reasonable choices (and in retrospect it seems like bet/call even has some merit, leaving only bet/fold as obviously a mistake, so of course that's the line I took...).

Thinking about now, I agree that check/call is probably the best line.
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 05-21-2006, 09:02 AM #6 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
I'd prefer a check/call.
But I dont mind your bet/fold.

He's not raising anything you can beat.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
koolmoe
Old 05-21-2006, 11:46 AM #7 (permalink)  
koolmoe's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
koolmoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
I'd prefer a check/call.
But I dont mind your bet/fold.

He's not raising anything you can beat.
So use your bet to induce a bluff. He's not calling much that you beat.

<edit> IMO, bet/fold on the river just sucks when you'd like to see a showdown.
Poker is freedom
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 05-21-2006, 05:54 PM #8 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
Meh didnt see this was against two opponents either.

Youre holding QQ on a JJTKx board. Why do you need to see showdown? Youve got second pair, coordinated flop, and a paired board, three handed. While I'm not going to be check/folding this river, I really don't want to put more than one bet in, and I highly highly highly doubt I'm ahead.

Either line will work, but for obvious reasons one is better than the other.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
koolmoe
Old 05-21-2006, 10:51 PM #9 (permalink)  
koolmoe's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
koolmoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Youre holding QQ on a JJTKx board. Why do you need to see showdown?
Because there are over 9 BB in the pot when the river card hits. I want a chance to win the pot, and not many hands that I beat are going to call the river, but someone might take a stab at the pot with a middle pair or busted Axs.

Bet/fold has merit only if you know that your opponents never bluff raise, as you have to call if you think there is a 8% chance that he might bluff raise the river. Even if you know this is true, I still think you have a better chance of winning a bet by inducing a bluff as opposed to having a value bet called.
Poker is freedom
 
Reply With Quote
koolmoe
Old 05-21-2006, 10:52 PM #10 (permalink)  
koolmoe's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
koolmoe
Also, I would add that no better hand is folding this river, so that further reduces your reasons for leading the river.
Poker is freedom
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:35 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.