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View Poll Results: Suited Cards in the Small Blind, sans raise.
I play all suited cards that are dealt to me, no matter how many people in pot (in general). 2 18.18%
I play only suited connectors that are dealt to me. 3 27.27%
I don't play any suited cards unless there are at least 5 people in the pot already. 5 45.45%
I don't play any suited cards in the SB period, just quality connectors or Axs (etc) 1 9.09%
I play every hand in the small blind if there are enough people in the pot, suited or not. 0 0%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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POLL: Suited Cards in the Small Blind

  
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-24-2005, 10:33 PM     Post subject: POLL: Suited Cards in the Small Blind #1 (permalink)  
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 Just wondering what you play, how your numbers look.

Filter your hands so that only 'Suited' is labeled in 'type of hole cards' then put Blind Status: Small blind.

I'm interested to hear the statistics.

You know my vote...


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Fnord
Old 01-24-2005, 10:40 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Like I said, blind structure also matters.

For 1/2 I'm not sure.
For 1/3 this is probably a leak
for 2/3 it can't be too wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-25-2005, 01:50 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Like I said, blind structure also matters.

For 1/2 I'm not sure.
For 1/3 this is probably a leak
for 2/3 it can't be too wrong.
Yeah, I'm going over my numbers, and it sucks I cant include my pacific numbers here because my 1/3 numbers would be even higher. I was HOPING you would post your numbers, so we can divulge into the topic some more. But hey, whatever, go get a job or something.

Movin on....

Over a 20000 hand sample of 1/2 and 2/4....
My 1/2 blind structured numbers are pretty good, as long as they aren't suited cards. First, as a control measure, I just filtered out Hands in the Small blind to which I VP$IP. I'm averaging a gain of .33 BB/hand when i'm dealt cards in the SB.

Okay, so i filtered out just suited cards in the Small blinds to which i've VPIP. I found that I have a -.07 BB/hand. Alright I now filtered all hands in the SB to which I've vpip and were NOT suited. Well, my win rate for those is .77 BB/hand. Whats the reason? Is it because non-suited hands playable in the SB are of higher quality? ....the trek continues. EDIT: an important filter I didn't do first was the difference in losses I have with suited cards. My losses are .11 BB/hand overall at the 1/2 blind structure when I see the flop, buy my losses for not playing are .25 bb/hand. There for I lose LESS when I call.


Over a much smaller sample size of 3/6 (only 1k hands in party, prolly 2x as many in Pacific)....
My 1/3 blind structured numbers are....1st filter, hands in SB to which i've VP$IP: .81 BB/hand win rate.
2nd filter, hands in SB that were suited: .49 BB/hand
3rd filter, hands in SB that were NOT suited: 1.09 BB/hand.

These numbers are very different from 1/2 blind structure. I dont know if I play better post flop in these situations, if I am that much more careful in my selections... I'm calling/raising 70% of all suited cards i'm dealt in the SB at 3/6. I'm calling/raising 49.4% of all suited cards i'm dealt in the SB at 2/4 and 1/2. (times vpip suited cards in SB divided by times dealt Suited cards in SB divided) However i have 1/20 the hands in 3/6 as i do in 1/2 and 2/4, so this could also be a strong factor.

EDIT: Hyper has brought up an important caveat in my numbers. If i were to not play suited cards in teh small blind, my loss rate would be .25 BB/hand (as is everybody's). However, since I do play them, I only lose on average .11 BB/hand at the 2/4 level. Therefore, I gain .14 BB/hand by playing them than If I were to fold them.

Conclusion:

EDIT: This changes my conclusion dramatically. You lose less when playing suited cards from the SB, than if you were to fold them. Thank you very much hyper....all that for nothing

I can only extrapolate for the blind levels of 1/3. It makes no sense that the win rate is higher in 1/3 than it is in 1/2, other than I'm on an upswing, which, is very likely and my hand sample is very small. In other words, I fully expect the 1/3 blind level to be in the negative if I continue to play like this in 70% of the situations. Sklansky says to play any suited cards even in Tight games. I now believe this to be correct at levels where blinds are 1/2 or lower.

At blind levels of higher than 1/2, I have no experience so I cant offer any statistical analyses. However, again I can assume you would call more in the SB only because it is cheaper relative to other blind levels.

My suggestions are to look over your game, look over your statistics, are you playing too much in the SB? Are the situations you are playing your cards in suitable for adequate small blind play?


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elipsesjeff
Old 01-25-2005, 04:04 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Hyper also suggested I look at the profitability (or lack thereof rather) of the crap suited cards, i.e., non connectors.

So, I filtered out and looked at my win rate in the SB for $hitty suited cards, from Q8s to 62s. All others I think can be determined pretty good Suited cards, or connected in some way.

My win rate was exactly -.25 BB/100 in the 1/2 blind structure. So this means playing even the crap suited hands are generally break-even in nature.


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