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04-26-2006, 12:47 PM
Post subject: Poker Drill Master hand
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#1 (permalink)
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This is a hand from Poker Drill Master. There is no hand history or reads.
Flop:   
Two people are in the hand in front of you, two people are behind you.
You hold:  
The Pot: $36
The Bet: $3
Fold, Call, or Raise?
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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fold preflop.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
fold preflop.
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you posted
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thenonsequitur
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04-26-2006, 03:57 PM
Post subject: Re: Poker Drill Master hand
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#4 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
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I'm not exactly clear on the action so far. Is is it something like this?
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J 5
Hero (poster) calls, CO raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls
Flop: (10 SB) 2 7 8 (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero ???
Is that about right?
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mike4066
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,943
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Ehuph, if you can close the action getting 10:1 with 2 suited you'll call and you know it..
preflop discussion asside
with every backdoor draw possible here I probably peel 1 IF IF IF I don't think I'll get raised behind, but since you most likely got raised behind preflop I'd be worried about getting trapped for max bets on the flop.
If I think there is a possiblilty of getting raised behind I fold.
If I think i'll get overcalls and no raise giving me about 15:1 with 3 backdoor draws I'll probably let one fly.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Raise.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Raise.
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Why?
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I'm totally confused.
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i cant see how we can have 5 ppl in the pot with the pot at $36 . Im stupid im sure.
FOld, bigger edges to exploit
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Two people are in the hand in front of you, two people are behind you.
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So mike, we didn't get to close the action, theres guys behind us. Apparently we posted in MP.
Fold, and don't post in MP again.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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If the answer isn't fold, it's gotta be pray that the 9s hits on the turn.
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Poker is freedom
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by koolmoe
If the answer isn't fold, it's gotta be pray that the 9s hits on the turn.
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that only goes to prove online poker is rigged no?
:P
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Hrmm. You've got a backdoor flush draw = 1.5 outs
A 1 space backdoor straight draw = 1 out.
and one overcard = 1.5 outs (not 3 because you can still hit the jack and lose.
On a very ugly board.
meaning you're sitting at 4 outs. 4 outs = 10.5 to one to get calling odds. You're getting 12 to one. call. Be willing to get the heck out of dodge if you miss on the turn.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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mike4066
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,943
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But you have to remember that your going to call 1 BB on the turn in order to catch that back door draw.
I'm lost, fold and take two asprin.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Hrmm. You've got a backdoor flush draw = 1.5 outs
A 1 space backdoor straight draw = 1 out.
and one overcard = 1.5 outs (not 3 because you can still hit the jack and lose.
On a very ugly board.
meaning you're sitting at 4 outs. 4 outs = 10.5 to one to get calling odds. You're getting 12 to one. call. Be willing to get the heck out of dodge if you miss on the turn.
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yeah that's almost exactly the odds the program quoted
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I don't think it matters much what you do, assuming little risk of a raise behind you.
4 outs is kinda optimistic because only the backdoor flush is a hand you really can drive the betting with.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mike4066
Ehuph, if you can close the action getting 10:1 with 2 suited you'll call and you know it..
preflop discussion asside
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I'd make the call with 75s, but muck the J5s. I think 10:1 is a flawed way to look at this problem pre-flop. J5s isn't going to flop enough best hands that can drive the betting against a good 2nd best hand.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I think 10:1 is a flawed way to look at this problem pre-flop. J5s isn't going to flop enough best hands that can drive the betting against a good 2nd best hand.
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Well, you're really just going for the flush and any trips or two pair possibilities that are on top of that are a bonus, and all of those are prime bet-driving hands. I believe ihategnomes did some calculations earlier and if I'm not mistaked the correct call for any two suited is ~9-1 in the BB (it might actually be closer to 8, but you'll never ever get a chance for 8-1 in the BB, it has to be ood). I definately call with J5s and hope i hit my flush draw.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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I just don't understand why you guys are bashing on a very helpful exercise to help the way we think about our hands, evaluating outs, and whatnot.
I do understand that in most cases it's just not profitable from that posititon to play J5s but this is one of those cases, where it's turned into a profit turning proposition. Not only that, but this hand is imaginary, a simple exercise to test/strengthen our hand reading ability. Us being smart men, won't play this hand unless we are on the sb, or BB, or button. BB for free, SB, because of a huge discount as long as we're getting better than 10-1 on our money, and button as long as the entire table has come before us. Then we may even raise.
SSH "When the pot is big, we gain leeway with the hands that we can play when we are late, and marginally profitable hands/losing hands can become very profitable... "
This seems like one of those cases
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
SSH "When the pot is big, we gain leeway with the hands that we can play when we are late, and marginally profitable hands/losing hands can become very profitable... "
This seems like one of those cases
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I would guess that the bolded part means "when we are in late position". In middle position with people left behind us to act, I'd fold without a thought. If I was in position and/or closing the action for the round, a call could be correct.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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