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PLO -- Flopped straights -- play fast or careful??

  
 
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Monty9
Old 11-17-2006, 05:10 PM     Post subject: PLO -- Flopped straights -- play fast or careful?? #1 (permalink)  
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Howdy,

PLO question

I think I read somewhere that a flopped straight will usually lose if the hand goes to showdown. If this is correct what is the best way to play them. Say to open a pot or with a min bet in front.

Ex. 1 rainbow...no pairs

Ex. 2 2 suited .... no pairs

Ex. 3 1 pair on board

Thanks,
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dsaxton
Old 11-17-2006, 05:29 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I think this is mostly situational. It matters whether or not you're holding the nut straight, the actions of other players and their playing styles, whether or not you have redraws, etc.

In general, it makes sense to play the nuts fast.
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KoRnholio
Old 11-17-2006, 08:23 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I agree, it is mostly situational. If you can get your whole stack in (or close to it) on the flop with the nut straight, by all means do it. But if the money is deeper, you may want to take a card off, especially if there are a lot of cards that can un-nut you and there are multiple callers.

ex. 9Jxx on a 7s 8s Th board, there's a bet and 3-4 calls in front of you, with a deep stack where you couldn't raise enough, just call and see a turn card. Any spade, T, 8, 7 or even a J or 9 could be bad.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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dsaxton
Old 11-17-2006, 08:46 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Also, if a tight player is showing a lot of strength on the flop, he usually has the nuts as well, meaning the best you can do is split if you have no redraws.
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Miffed22001
Old 11-18-2006, 02:51 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 im not actually a fan of getting all in on the flop with a straight.
On rainbow boards sure, you arent making a mistake even if you are up against something like a set and a higher straight redraw or whatnot. You have the edge there.
On paired boards it is a mistake. See a turn card and then play a big street if you like it.
On a flushy board i think you are gambOOling if the pot is multiway. If you get it all in 3 ways you could be facing a flush draw a set and a straight redraw from multiple players.
Therefore i dont get all in with a nut straight on the flop often but i do on the turn when many hands will still make huge mistakes to chase a better hand.

Of course im assuming your opponents arent total donks and wont get all in with just top two pair on TJQrainbow when you have AK

Edit: Id do some math on the redraw thing, but basically if the pot is multiway and large any strong redraw has odds to call, whether it be a flush draw or a boat draw (i.e flopped set) If youre HU you have a much larger advantage, but from my experience not many small stakes omaha hi games go HU to the flop.
Also, as dsax notes, you could be up against redraws when you flop the nuts with exactly the same hand as someone else and backdoor draws.
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KoRnholio
Old 11-18-2006, 07:52 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
On paired boards it is a mistake. See a turn card and then play a big street if you like it.
You can't have a straight on a paired flop

Quote:
On a flushy board i think you are gambOOling if the pot is multiway. If you get it all in 3 ways you could be facing a flush draw a set and a straight redraw from multiple players.
I ran some numbers. Against 2 opponents, one with the flush draw, one with top set, you're still in very good shape (see below). If there are multiple people drawing to flushes/sets it actually improves your odds, since there are less live cards for them to draw to, and more $ in the pot PLO is a gamboolin' game sometimes.

Omaha Hi: 666 enumerated boards containing 6s 5s 9d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s 4c 2d 8h 252 37.84 414 62.16 0 0.00 0.378
As Ks Jd Kh 164 24.62 502 75.38 0 0.00 0.246
4s 9c Qd 9h 250 37.54 416 62.46 0 0.00 0.375

The only real danger of getting all in with the nut straight on the flop is if someone is freerolling you with the nut straight+flush draw as per this example:

Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 6s 5s 9d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s 4c 2d 8h 0 0.00 301 36.71 519 63.29 0.316
As Qs 7c 8d 301 36.71 0 0.00 519 63.29 0.684

But you can't worry about every monster under the bed, especially with a stack that isn't deep. Until the flop gets 3+ bet, you won't know that you're up against a hand like this anyways.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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