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littleogre

12-17-2006, 10:07 AM Post subject: please review hand

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 1,344

littleogre has a little shameless behaviour in the past

** Game ID 1091539197 starting - 2006-12-17 05:36:20
** Sturgeon Moon [Hold 'em] (0.25|0.50 Fixed Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- Kruskal_ sitting in seat 1 with $46.58
- tendersnap sitting in seat 2 with $10.84
- buroge sitting in seat 3 with $27.52
- jeka888 sitting in seat 4 with $19.51
- Maynerd12 sitting in seat 5 with $17.01
- Han1bal sitting in seat 6 with $1.45
- JimmieS4 sitting in seat 7 with $70.15
- SomeTush sitting in seat 9 with $4.75
- wtpholdem sitting in seat 10 with $3.21 [Dealer]

Kruskal_ posted the small blind - $0.12
tendersnap posted the big blind - $0.25
SomeTush posted to play - $0.25
** Dealing card to wtpholdem: 10 of Diamonds, Jack of Clubs
buroge folded
jeka888 folded
Maynerd12 called - $0.25
Han1bal folded
JimmieS4 folded
SomeTush bet - $0.50
wtpholdem raised - $0.75
Kruskal_ folded
tendersnap folded
Maynerd12 folded
SomeTush raised - $1.00
wtpholdem called - $1.00

** Dealing the flop: Ace of Hearts, 6 of Spades, 6 of Diamonds
SomeTush checked
wtpholdem checked

** Dealing the turn: Jack of Diamonds
SomeTush checked
wtpholdem checked

** Dealing the river: 4 of Diamonds
SomeTush checked
wtpholdem bet - $0.50
SomeTush called - $0.50
wtpholdem shows: 10 of Diamonds, Jack of Clubs

Ok i will give the results later.
Now let me explain why i played the hand the way that i did.

The bet by villan from late position looked like a steal to me but i hate flat calling 2 bets with j/10 in a pot with a small numer of people. Also i was hopeing my raise would either make him fold if he is weak or earn me the right to play heads up.

on the flop i checked because i saw no value in bluffing . The way the villan had been playing he was gona call down regardless even if he had just a small pair. On the turn i made my pair but was scared to bet because the villan was also passive meaning he was just as likely to call with a set as he was to call with an under pair

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euphoricism

12-17-2006, 03:51 PM

#2 (permalink)

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I probably fold preflop, but beyond that there isn't much to say.

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Xanadu

12-17-2006, 05:18 PM

#3 (permalink)

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3-betting JTo here is pretty spewy unless you know the original raiser is raising total junk often and the blinds will almost always fold and the original limper will almost always fold. And you can't get a preflop raiser to fold for one more bet.

elipsesjeff

12-17-2006, 05:45 PM

#4 (permalink)

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elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

I can't say I disagree with the rest of them, JTo is not a hand to 3bet, as HU it is a massive underdog to most of villain's raising range.

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bigspenda73

12-18-2006, 06:50 AM

#5 (permalink)

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bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

Hey, it's been said on here before, if you can 3bet a bad player in position and get to a heads up flop, then that play is +EV.

I don't mind the 3bet PF with JTo, however, I don't like the passivity you show on the subsequent streets. Why not bet the turn and if called you can check behind a blank river. I think this way you win more when you win but you lose the same when you lose.

euphoricism

12-18-2006, 07:30 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

I probably fold preflop

Quote:

3-betting JTo here is pretty spewy unless you know the original raiser is raising total junk often and the blinds will almost always fold and the original limper will almost always fold.

Quote:

JTo is not a hand to 3bet, as HU it is a massive underdog to most of villain's raising range.

Quote:

I don't mind the 3bet PF with JTo

*sings* One of these things is not like the other...

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bigspenda73

12-18-2006, 01:20 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Parody can be a good thing euph

(could swear we talked about this situation in chat)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Here is the play that made me a lot of money, over and over again.

Some terrible player would limp, then I would raise something like J9s from the BN, CO or whatever. Then all of the tight guys farming 4+ tables behind me would fold and more often than not I'd get the terrible players heads-up, with position and dead money in the pot.

1 limper then a PF raise, then we 3bet light from the button getting ourselves headsup with a player who will pay off even the slighest of hands allowing us to gain full value when we win and not have much extracted when we lose. It's just a thought, take it for what you will.

Xanadu

12-18-2006, 03:57 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Posts: 966

Well, Fnord's case was a limper, not a raiser which significantly increases our value in 2 ways. 1st, the dead money if the blinds fold (in both Fnord's case and my case for this being playable, the blinds must fold most of the time) is a bigger % of the pot. 2nd, pulling this play against a raiser rather than a limper means we are up against a much better range even if opponent is a maniac preflop.

Even if the raiser is raising 35% here (few maniacs are looser than that) which would be any A, any pair, and hands down to junk like Q8, we are only ahead of J9 and maybe a mid suited connector. We are about 40% against that range. If the blinds fold, and the original limpers fold, taking out the rake, we are getting 3:5 on our 3-bet, which is just barely the odds we have against that range. But this is a best case scenario. Sometimes the blinds will play. Sometimes the limper will have a good hand and play. Sometimes the raiser had a very good hand and 4bets us. Just barely having odds in a best case scenario even though we have position is good reason to pass on the 'opportunity' and just fold. Like I said before, we have to know the raiser has a lot of junk in his range (more like a 50% pfr%), and we have to know the blinds and original limper are pretty tight against 3-bets. Even then this is a marginal play compared with Fnord's scenario against a limper (which could have a 70-80% range).

Another flaw with our hand is we have almost no show-down value unimproved without an A or K in our hand. Make our hand A2o, and even though all the Aces have us dominated, our equity improves to nearly 45% against a 35% range.

I'm not saying this play is always -EV, but the situation really does need to be just about perfect for it to work with a hand as weak as JT0.

bigspenda73

12-18-2006, 04:17 PM Post subject: Re: please review hand

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by littleogre

on the flop i checked because i saw no value in bluffing . The way the villan had been playing he was gona call down regardless even if he had just a small pair.On the turn i made my pair but was scared to bet because the villan was also passive meaning he was just as likely to call with a set as he was to call with an under pair

plz explain this reasoning, you don't want him calling you down with an inferior hand?

euphoricism

12-18-2006, 05:45 PM

#10 (permalink)

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The difference is Fnord is suited, which adds about 6% to your chance to win (which is a lot).

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Xanadu

12-18-2006, 05:47 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

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that too

bigspenda73

12-18-2006, 07:02 PM

#12 (permalink)

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but its sooooted

littleogre

12-21-2006, 05:41 PM Post subject: Re: please review hand

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 1,344

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleogre

plz explain this reasoning, you don't want him calling you down with an inferior hand?

Well on the flop i din't see any reason to think i had the best hand. On the turn i probably should have bet. In the back of my mind i was thinking about the fact that the players at the table were for the most part post flop mice and would call and hardly ever raise there big made hands. Just a couple pots before i hade tptx and bet on every street and my opponent just called including on the river. i expected to win only to see him turn over a set of 8's. A couple pots before that similar thing happened but this time the player had A Q high flush. So i guess you could sy i was on reverse tilt. It was almost impossible to put them on a hand post flop as you never knew wether a call meant bottom pair or a set or top 2 pair or what ever. On the river i thought he might have busted high cards so i bet. Only to once again feel like a fool when he showed pocket queens

bigspenda73

12-21-2006, 06:33 PM

#14 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

I wouldn't feel to bad about putting the money in the pot for them. Just tell yourself against a good opponent you would have been calling bets instead of you yourself betting. Just make sure if these players ever bet that you take it extremely seriously.

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