Originally Posted by KoRnholio

I would raise the turn on the second hand

Originally Posted by MrBigStuff25

So on the first hand I got extremely lucky and played the flop too aggressively, since I really only had 6 outs or less, maybe only the 3 fours since any nine could have made a higher straight. I haven't gotten the whole discounting outs down yet, obviously.

What if the flop had been 7d, Jc, 6h? How many outs would I have had then and what would have been the correct way to play it?

There is so much I need to learn.
Thanks,

Originally Posted by Tim Vecchioni

..and im a little confused how the k/q didnt raise you on the river since he did all that to finally hit his queen then just calls.

Originally Posted by Ltrain

I check/fold on the first hand. There is a flush coordinated board so your OESD has tainted outs, not only for the flush, but you are also not drawing to a nut straight; I don't see your odds here for a bet or a call. On the turn, you hit your straight but another diamond dominates you and your bet won't drive them out now. Don't let your results fool you, your line here will lose you $$ too often.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Jeff, are you considering that the pot is only 4.5 sb on the flop? I don't think a fold is a disaster, but I'd have to do the math. With a bigger pot folding here would be stupid.

Originally Posted by Fnord

The flop bet sucks.

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Its not THAT bad. Betting is better than folding. Wouldn't you do the same with a baby flush draw here? Sure, you're not drawing to the nuts but if everyone just calls you are still getting 5-1 on your money, making it +EV.

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Horrible advice. Way to take an WLLH approach to an SSH scenario. You have a very good draw, 8 outs to a straight, yes, 2 of those are tainted but you have to learn to deal with that, stop being so afraid of flush draws when the vast majority of time it ISNT out there. At most this costs you .5 outs per card so you're probably only at 7 outs, which is still more than enough for this line. The fact you aren't drawing to the nut straight has no bearing whatsover. You are much more likely to win more money by betting than by check/folding. True, on the turn your bet wont drive them out but that doesn't matter, the lone diamond is only going to redraw to a flush here on the river like 17% of the time, less if he's sharing outs with the other idiots at the table. You want him to pay as much as possible for his redraw.

That being said, his line was fine for hand 1, a 3bet on the turn is possible if he has a read of his opponent (like a person that would slowplay set but bet a flush draw).

Hand 2: You've got to raise this turn.

Originally Posted by Ltrain

Turn- Why does a bet here not lose us more money when we are beaten?

Originally Posted by Ltrain

I have to disagree at this limit with the unlimited type of hands being played back at you. Most players are going to call you down with all sorts of starting hands, including a possible Ad,x that may hit an ace or a runner runner flush.

Originally Posted by Fnord

In a game where hands like 22 and A2 often see showdown unimproved in multi-way pots and miss lots of easy value raises you don't exploit your opponents for the max by leading with weak draws. If ever there was a time to play a draw for straight up value...

Anyway, I check this flop for information and because I don't see value against typical opponents in a micro-limit game. On the turn it's either a lead or check/raise. I probably would check/raise because a small flush will often just call me down (along with lots of other absurd holdings that won't take the hint) and we're not strong enough to want to put in the 3rd bet.

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

How many players in the pot does it take for you to lead out here? >5? or <3?

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

I'm inclined to bet because of the limited aggression preflop (then again it is .05/.1 so your line isnt incorrect).

Originally Posted by Fnord

Against 3 random hands we have an edge...

7,947,972 games 18.183 secs 437,110 games/sec

Board: 7d Jc 6d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 28.7960 % 27.53% 01.27% { 8s5h }
Hand 2: 23.7427 % 22.61% 01.13% { random }
Hand 3: 23.7393 % 22.61% 01.13% { random }
Hand 4: 23.7220 % 22.60% 01.13% { random }

Originally Posted by Fnord

But if we lead into 3 or 4 opponents and 2 call did we push an edge?

Originally Posted by Ltrain

Man, you must have a quick computer because I am trying to get the number myself and it is really slow.

Originally Posted by Ltrain

I check/fold on the first hand.

Originally Posted by floppydonker

You would fold your st8 for one bet here? To me that is just sik and wrong.....

Originally Posted by Ltrain

The check/fold would have been on the flop when it was a draw.

Originally Posted by iopq

Are you KIDDING ME??
On hand 1
the pot is 10SB by the time it gets to him
He has in partial outs 7 outs. Half the time or more all of his outs count. The rest of the time 6 outs count. There's runner-runner two pair/trips possibilities (two pair would blow though because of four to the straight). He has 30% equity in this pot AT LEAST. He's only paying 2 SB for his share of 3SB and superb implied odds IF his straight is clean. We would have to discount his implied odds for the bad outs, but they are not horrible in that case. Calling here gains you at least 2 SB on average including implied odds on clean straights. Folding here is as bad as laying down aces preflop.