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arkitekton
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11-13-2006, 12:49 PM
Post subject: Playing the Flop Heads Up v a Preflop Raiser
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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Here's one for you all:
You're in the big blind with 9s8s, and the UTG+1 raises. All fold to you and you call. The flop comes 9h 4c 2d. What's your plan?
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NWNewell
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL
Posts: 283
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Bet.
Most fair to decent players will realize that you called with a mediocre hand in the blinds, and a middle-ish board could have easily paired you. If they missed their overs, they will need to evaluate their drawing odds to continue. They will probably fold or incorrectly call. Either is fine by you.
If you are raised, you need to think about folding... but your read really needs to come into play!
Against an agg/maniac, they very well may raise you on an overcard draw. If you do get raised, you need to go with your read. Are they hyper agg/maniac? Are they raising with overs or do they have the over pair they are representing?
Or are they tricky, or think you are tricky and and think would try to steal against their overs when rags fall? If you are raised, it is basically up to your read. Being raised is a tough situation. Go with your gut!
Definitely bet out.... if you are raised, you need to go with your read. If you are called, bet the turn again. Think about folding to a turn raise of a scare card comes (A,K,Q) (again, your read... is he capable of a tricky play like trying to steal if he thinks you have something less that a pair of what just hit, i.e. pair of 9s and a Jack fell on the turn... I think few are).
PS I don't care to call a lone EP raiser with 9s8s. Even if I do have 3:1 to call. You may only be a 2:1 dog, but I think you are up against reverse implied odds that make it tough to be profitable. But then again, if your read is that he is a light raiser and likes tol run without the ball postflop, then you may want to call this occaitionally.
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uiowa
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Iowa City, IA
Posts: 1
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Your biggest concern IMO is to evaluate if the original raiser has a bigger pocket pair than your 9's. If he has a big PP, I think much of the time you will face a call on the flop and reraise on the turn since you will probably bet out first on the turn. You should have evaluated this players style before coming into this hand if possible. If he is entering < 10-15% of the pots you can be pretty sure that 70+% of the time he has AA-TT or AK or AQ from EP; which is bad for you with your 9's obviously. Again as NWN mentions, your read on this player is important. If the player seems solid he will know you most likely paired the 9. If he is looser, which will be the case most often at SSHL, he is probably on overcards, and will call you looking to reevaluate the turn. If he hits, he's going to get to raise you if you bet out.
I think in this case my line is to check to him and let him bet the flop. At that point I would try for a check raise to see if he 3 bets it. If he flat calls I feel like I am probably ahead to his overs. When he flat calls the flop bet I feel like I am ahead 80% of the time and will bet the turn as well regardless of what comes. If a scare card comes on the turn (eg. pairing his over) and he raises you on the turn, I lay down. If not I probably fire on the river again if he calls.
PS - I call the EP raiser in BB. SB I probably lay it down.
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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My standard line is to check-raise anytime I hit something(pair, 2-pair, draw, etc...) heads up from the BB. I find that I can get a much better read on what somebody has based on how they react to a check-raise as opposed to how they react when you bet into them. at least 90% of the people where I play are going to raise here when you bet into them almost regardless of what they have, so you don't really have any idea of where you stand.
Against certain overly aggressive players, I can definately see some good value in just check-calling all the way down too(I know some of the players here will disagree with that, but from my experience being passive postflop can be good sometimes).
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
My standard line is to check-raise anytime I hit something(pair, 2-pair, draw, etc...) heads up from the BB. I find that I can get a much better read on what somebody has based on how they react to a check-raise as opposed to how they react when you bet into them. at least 90% of the people where I play are going to raise here when you bet into them almost regardless of what they have, so you don't really have any idea of where you stand.
Against certain overly aggressive players, I can definately see some good value in just check-calling all the way down too(I know some of the players here will disagree with that, but from my experience being passive postflop can be good sometimes).
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I prefer the passive check/call line over many check/raise lines. Why raise an opponent out of a hand when you have to call a 3bet and fold the turn unimproved? You're building a pot you usually can't win and if villain will often (correctly) fire 2nd and 3rd barrels with air then I would never raise without two pair.
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NWNewell
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL
Posts: 283
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
I prefer the passive check/call line over many check/raise lines. Why raise an opponent out of a hand when you have to call a 3bet and fold the turn unimproved? You're building a pot you usually can't win and if villain will often (correctly) fire 2nd and 3rd barrels with air then I would never raise without two pair.
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I agree... but I still like betting out over both check/raising and check/calling as a standard.
The board is weak, not even any draws (maybe a gutshot with A5 or something), so there is no guarentee he will even bet the flop. True, majority will Cbet, but not always and you could give away a free card to overs. Plus, I would rather bet out and give him the opportunity to fold and pick up the pot right there as opposed to check/calling and having him see the turn since we are pretty vulerable.
Don't know if that is correct, but those are my thoughts....
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