www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

playing flop from the big blind

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

gabe

12-14-2004, 06:29 AM Post subject: playing flop from the big blind

#1 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: trying to live

Posts: 7,964

gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

I have been losing money when I am the BB and I check, get a pair with a weak kicker and don't know when to fold. All helps is appreciated.

hand 1

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Gabe is BB with J

, 9

.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, Gabe checks.

Flop: (7.40 SB) J

, K

, 8

(7 players)
Gabe bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) 4

(5 players)
Gabe bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls.

River: (10.20 BB) 2

(4 players)
Gabe checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Button folds, Gabe calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 13.20 BB

Results in white below:
Gabe has Jd 9s (one pair, jacks).
MP1 has As Jc (one pair, jacks).
MP2 has Qd Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP2 wins 13.20 BB.

hand 2

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Gabe is BB with T

, 3

.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, Gabe checks.

Flop: (4.40 SB) K

, T

, 2

(4 players)
Gabe bets, UTG calls, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (3.70 BB) J

(3 players)
Gabe checks, UTG checks, CO checks.

River: (3.70 BB) A

(3 players)
Gabe checks, UTG bets, CO folds, Gabe folds.

Final Pot: 4.70 BB

Results in white below:
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: UTG wins 4.70 BB.

thanks

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

elipsesjeff

12-14-2004, 06:49 AM

#2 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

Generally, middle pair with no kicker = bad. FISH!!! j/k

When you get to see a BB hand for free (which at higher limits is a blessing) you basically hope for one thing: the miracle straight, trips, or two pair. Anthing beyond that with junk cards toss it.

Hand 1: Dont bother betting out on this hand. You've probably been reading a lot on how people are betting with middle pair (such as 6 max where you have to be aggressive). In a full ring game full of microfish you cant bet out with middle pair and no kicker. The best thing to do is check, call for one more small bet, and if you dont pick up anything on the turn, check-fold. There are 5 people that voluntarily joined this hand. Chances are they have you outkicked and/or beat your hand. You've got technically 4.5 outs to win this hand (3 for the nines and 1.5 for the runner runner straight possibility). You have implied odds to check/call the flop, but you don't on the Turn.

Hand 2:

Same advice from above, except now you don't even have odds to call the flop. Get out of that hand, check, hoping it checks through. The pot is too small to worry about, get out of there. Another strategy would be to check the flop, then if it gets checked around bet the turn. Usually fish won't bet with middle pair until after they 'think' they have the best hand. They also usually bet TP no kicker on the flop too. Checking the flop, betting the turn gives them the impression you either just caught a J, hit a draw, etc. Possibility of taking down the pot if you bet.

Just because you have middle pair doesnt mean you should bet. In a large pot just check/call until your pot odds are against you doing so. Small pots fold.

What would you do with TP no kicker in this situation? You would Check, hoping for a check-raise, then bet out on turn. If raised, call the bet and think about folding the turn/river.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

LockLow34

12-14-2004, 12:44 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Ashburn, VA

Posts: 266

One of the leaks I've been working to plug is the same thing that's illustrated above. Catch just enough of the flop to stay in and put money into the pot. Meanwhile you're out of position with inferior cards, and even if you win a pot in that case you're still gonna lose money in the long run. Chuck the marginal hands like middle pair-small kicker.

At this point I rarely even call a raise with anything marginal from the BB; don't want to get trapped in a hand.

"How deep is the money?" - Fnord

elipsesjeff

12-14-2004, 03:07 PM

#4 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by LockLow34

At this point I rarely even call a raise with anything marginal from the BB; don't want to get trapped in a hand.

I think it depends more on where that raise is coming from. If the raise is from MP3, CO, Button, or SB and there is no one else in the pot, its a possible blind steal attempt. I would tend to call with just about anything other than the most hopeless of hands here. You get to see the pot for 1/2 the price and HU you are usually 40/60 underdog to anything but a large pocket pair. Plus, you dont give the impression that you're easy to roll over or will give up your blind easily...more important in the larger limits, but don't focus on them until you get there.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

ChezJ

12-14-2004, 03:18 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Washington, D.C.

Posts: 1,456

ChezJ is an unknown quantity at this point

I think the most important thing to note about the second hand is that the pot is too tiny to fight over. Just let it go and save your chips for another hand.

In the first hand, there's a bit more to be had, but I think you should check and see what happens. You are basically on a draw to 5 outs. Betting out such a weak hand from EP without knowing how much action will follow you is dangerous.

ChezJ

fishstick

12-15-2004, 09:14 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

also think about your redraws when deciding whether to play the flop. with a gutshot str or backdoor flush, it might (as in a large pot) be worth seeing the turn.

with no redraws, i'm a lot more inclined to let that 2nd pair or top pair weak kicker go on a full table.

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

|~|ypermegachi

12-15-2004, 09:18 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

hand 1:
check raise or check fold the flop
check fold the turn if blank, bet if it gives you a draw like OESD

hand 2:
check fold

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:38 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

All Other (Limit) Poker

playing flop from the big blind

Play for FREE and practice your game at...