|
littleogre
|
05-29-2006, 08:52 AM
Post subject: playing big draws?
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
|
|
By big draws's i mean flush draws, oesd , draws , and fh draws. Ok the concept of raising for value is simple enough. Now lets say you flop an oesd and a player that acts before you leads out and another calls. Now it is your turn to act. A raise would be perfectly ok but letssay there are 3 players left to act behind you. They are bad players that rarely fold for 1 bet on the flop but may or may not fold if asked to call 2 bets . So do you value raise your draw or do just call and invite them along thus increasing your implied odds.
In short how do you balance value raising draws with implied odds? When you raise and scare others away you but by not raising you miss bets.
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
thenonsequitur
|
|
05-29-2006, 12:36 PM
Post subject: Re: playing big draws?
|
#2 (permalink)
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
|
|
The times that I've thought about this, I've come to the conclusion that implied odds from future streeets and from overcalls are overrated when it comes to maximizing value for strong draws. In the example you gave, and in similar situatiuons, I raise.
|
|
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
only isolate against many players if you need to
If you have a monster draw and people may end up with a good second best then dont destroy your implied odds by destroying their ability to take the pot odds with whatever they hold.
|
|
|
|
sinky
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 295
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
only isolate against many players if you need to
If you have a monster draw and people may end up with a good second best then dont destroy your implied odds by destroying their ability to take the pot odds with whatever they hold.
|
If the pot is large you should consider raising with your monster draw. Yes for value (against many opps your hand has a big equity edge), but also to buy you another way to win. eg) you have AhKh on a board of JhTc2h. What is your plan for the 1 in 4 times where an A or a K hits on the turn or river ? If someone behind you has a hand like A2 or K2 then you'll regret not raising the flop when there was a good chance they would fold.
|
|
|
|
Xanadu
|
|
Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
|
|
Other considerations are that if there are probable redraws out there against you or if you hold overcards, it may bet better to protect your hand than to keep people in. But if your draw is relatively safe and you are unlikely to win with a pair, you should do whatever will get the most bets from the most people into the pot. In the example of third to act after a bet and call with 3 left to act, and you will only win by making your draw, I call and hope for a late position raise. But if those left to act will call 2 bets with almost anything, absolutely raise it up.
|
|
|
|
pokerfanatic
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
|
|
what is a FH draw? Full House? that could be any thing from 10 outs to 4... that depends on the situation...
|
|
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
|
|
littleogre
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
what is a FH draw? Full House? that could be any thing from 10 outs to 4... that depends on the situation...
|
yes fh is a full house. Although if you have one of those then you either have a set or 2 pair but for this example lets assume that even though you have a hand you have good reason to think someone else has a str8 or flush.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Fast, I like to gamble.
|
|
|
|
silverfist
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
|
|
Aside from overcard outs, which you should protect in any sized pot, there are some cases in very large pots where you can protect yourself from annoying redraws. Each of these cases will happen about 2% of the time per opponent, so you need to be aware of them in very large pots:
1. If the pot is large enough, you might want to also raise to protect your baby flush draws. Hitting your flush on the turn to have a fourth of your suit fall on the river sucks, and happens more often than I'd like.
2. If you have the bottom end of an OESD, like 87 on a T95 board, you might want to consider raising to knock out queens. Queens pick up an OESD of their own if you hit your jack.
3. Any OESD is vulnerable to backdoor flushes. A four-flush draw won't fold, but someone with a suited hand matching one of the cards on the board may easily pick up a four-flush draw on the turn if you don't give them an incentive to fold.
The main question is the size of the pot. If the pot is large, focus on winning it at all costs. Think about how you could be redrawn on the river. If the pot is small, build the pot and don't worry about strange 2% cases. I protect my overcards in any pot, but I'd only worry about the above cases if I'm getting 10:1 or more on my money.
|
Discuss Plato, Aristotle and Aquinas at The Lyceum
|
|
littleogre
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
|
|
ty to all for there replies.
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
