peel one off here?

**koolmoe** · 06-21-2005 10:16 PM

Button is a pretty good TAg (23/14) and CO is limping over half his hands (59/0).

After this hand, we have the following exchange:

Button: "well you were a TAg"
Me: "I think I played it correctly"
Button: "no the flop call was bad"

Did I play it incorrectly or does Button fold too much?

My play is standard, right?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5

, 4

.
2 folds, CO calls, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 5

, A

, T

(3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 3

(3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, CO folds.

River: (6.70 BB) 2

(2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has 5h 4h (straight, five high).
Button has Td Qd (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.70 BB.

**Fnord** · 06-21-2005 10:49 PM

I think your only mistake was your table chat. The correct answer is:

"I had a feeling I would runner my hearts, oh well"
"I'm silly like that"
"You're right, I should have raised"
"I like to gamble it up"
"I was feeling lucky"

**TylerK** · 06-21-2005 10:54 PM

"But they were sooted!"

**jmontis** · 06-21-2005 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Fnord

I think your only mistake was your table chat. The correct answer is:

"I had a feeling I would runner my hearts, oh well"
"I'm silly like that"
"You're right, I should have raised"
"I like to gamble it up"
"I was feeling lucky"

i love Mike Caro, he got me into the habit of saying this type of stuff.

**Xanadu** · 06-22-2005 12:25 AM

I think the preflop call was iffy, and can't find any reason to call on the flop.

**TylerK** · 06-22-2005 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Xanadu

I think the preflop call was iffy, and can't find any reason to call on the flop.

I think that while you can make a case for that, just saying so is far from enough. You need a bit more explanation for WHY.

**koolmoe** · 06-22-2005 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Fnord

I think your only mistake was your table chat. The correct answer is:

"I had a feeling I would runner my hearts, oh well"
"I'm silly like that"
"You're right, I should have raised"
"I like to gamble it up"
"I was feeling lucky"

Good tip...

**elipsesjeff** · 06-22-2005 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by Xanadu

I think the preflop call was iffy, and can't find any reason to call on the flop.

He's got 8 outs, can you count them?

He should be betting/raising.

**koolmoe** · 06-22-2005 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

He should be betting/raising.

I don't raise on backdoor outs because my hand equity will change dramatically on the turn unlike a flush draw or straight draw. If I don't improve my draw, I often won't have odds to call a turn bet.

Also, on this hand I felt pretty sure I was behind on the flop, so I preferred to keep CO in the hand to finance my draw. Even with a more solid draw I would probably not raise Button's flop bet because CO's style means he is almost always putting in dead money when he calls the flop.

Fianlly, any A, T, or medium pocket pair will have a solid redraw (8 outs) against my outs to the 4, so I have to discount those outs by 15% or so.

**koolmoe** · 06-22-2005 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by Xanadu

I think the preflop call was iffy

FWIW, I used to fold to raises with hands like that in the blinds preflop, but you just have to play more hands from the blinds in 6 max. Getting 5:1 on my call and playing the hand three-way, I feel comfortable calling one raise in that spot, even though I won't win all that often (but I will win more than 1/6 of the time). Knowing that the Button has a fairly tight preflop raising range makes it easier since my cards are likely to be live against him.

**Fnord** · 06-22-2005 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Xanadu

I think the preflop call was iffy, and can't find any reason to call on the flop.

You play too tight.

06-21-2005 10:16 PM #1
koolmoe View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 1,370 Location Drowning in prosperity	peel one off here? Button is a pretty good TAg (23/14) and CO is limping over half his hands (59/0). After this hand, we have the following exchange: Button: "well you were a TAg" Me: "I think I played it correctly" Button: "no the flop call was bad" Did I play it incorrectly or does Button fold too much? My play is standard, right? Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, 4. 2 folds, CO calls, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, CO calls. Flop: (6.40 SB) 5, A, T (3 players) Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, CO calls. Turn: (4.70 BB) 3 (3 players) Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, CO folds. River: (6.70 BB) 2 (2 players) Hero bets, Button calls. Final Pot: 8.70 BB Results in white below: Hero has 5h 4h (straight, five high). Button has Td Qd (one pair, tens). Outcome: Hero wins 8.70 BB.
	Poker is freedom
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06-21-2005 10:49 PM #2
Fnord View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2003 Posts 19,380 Location I'll Do You Like A Truck	I think your only mistake was your table chat. The correct answer is: "I had a feeling I would runner my hearts, oh well" "I'm silly like that" "You're right, I should have raised" "I like to gamble it up" "I was feeling lucky"
	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
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06-21-2005 10:54 PM #3
TylerK View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 1,871 Location PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME	"But they were sooted!"
	TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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06-21-2005 11:49 PM #4
jmontis View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2004 Posts 1,321	Originally Posted by Fnord I think your only mistake was your table chat. The correct answer is: "I had a feeling I would runner my hearts, oh well" "I'm silly like that" "You're right, I should have raised" "I like to gamble it up" "I was feeling lucky" i love Mike Caro, he got me into the habit of saying this type of stuff.

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06-22-2005 12:25 AM #5
Xanadu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2005 Posts 969 Location st. paul, MO	I think the preflop call was iffy, and can't find any reason to call on the flop.

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06-22-2005 12:27 AM #6
TylerK View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Oct 2004 Posts 1,871 Location PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME	Originally Posted by Xanadu I think the preflop call was iffy, and can't find any reason to call on the flop. I think that while you can make a case for that, just saying so is far from enough. You need a bit more explanation for WHY.
	TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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06-22-2005 02:37 AM #7
koolmoe View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 1,370 Location Drowning in prosperity	Originally Posted by Fnord I think your only mistake was your table chat. The correct answer is: "I had a feeling I would runner my hearts, oh well" "I'm silly like that" "You're right, I should have raised" "I like to gamble it up" "I was feeling lucky" Good tip...
	Poker is freedom
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06-22-2005 02:42 AM #8
elipsesjeff View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2004 Posts 4,863 Location Northern Virginia	Originally Posted by Xanadu I think the preflop call was iffy, and can't find any reason to call on the flop. He's got 8 outs, can you count them? He should be betting/raising.
	Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
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06-22-2005 03:47 AM #9
koolmoe View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 1,370 Location Drowning in prosperity	Originally Posted by elipsesjeff He should be betting/raising. I don't raise on backdoor outs because my hand equity will change dramatically on the turn unlike a flush draw or straight draw. If I don't improve my draw, I often won't have odds to call a turn bet. Also, on this hand I felt pretty sure I was behind on the flop, so I preferred to keep CO in the hand to finance my draw. Even with a more solid draw I would probably not raise Button's flop bet because CO's style means he is almost always putting in dead money when he calls the flop. Fianlly, any A, T, or medium pocket pair will have a solid redraw (8 outs) against my outs to the 4, so I have to discount those outs by 15% or so.
	Poker is freedom
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06-22-2005 04:13 AM #10
koolmoe View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 1,370 Location Drowning in prosperity	Originally Posted by Xanadu I think the preflop call was iffy FWIW, I used to fold to raises with hands like that in the blinds preflop, but you just have to play more hands from the blinds in 6 max. Getting 5:1 on my call and playing the hand three-way, I feel comfortable calling one raise in that spot, even though I won't win all that often (but I will win more than 1/6 of the time). Knowing that the Button has a fairly tight preflop raising range makes it easier since my cards are likely to be live against him.
	Poker is freedom
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06-22-2005 10:32 AM #11
Fnord View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2003 Posts 19,380 Location I'll Do You Like A Truck	Originally Posted by Xanadu I think the preflop call was iffy, and can't find any reason to call on the flop. You play too tight.
	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
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