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dsaxton
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10-17-2006, 09:59 PM
Post subject: Passive blind defense.
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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This is a hand I played about a week ago, and was wondering what others think. Opponent is a pretty standard tagg.
PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 2 , K.
2 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.
Flop: (4.40 SB) 9 , 9 , K (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (3.20 BB) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.
River: (5.20 BB) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 7.20 BB
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I really want to put in another bet.
check/raise/call the river?
My other concern is if I think I'll clash with him again. Establishing that you'll call pretty good hands but not raise with them makes it difficult to play back at people with credibility. Then again, this is online...
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Well well well, aren't we a calling station. I c/r the turn. If he would have checked behind the turn I would lead the river. However, if I am the button here I am going to bet the turn with anything after you check it to me twice, therefore, I believe you can c/r the majority of the time. If he 3bets, I probably let it go, if he calls I lead the river.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I thought I posted in this thread already....
Anyway, I like it. I think check/raising the turn has absolutely zero value and I would check/raise the river if your kicker played and you're confident he will call with a worse hand. If I'm 3bet on the river finding a call here would be very difficult, which would lead me back to not check/raising at all.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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This play reminds me of a Jeff 10/20 line actually LOL...
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I'm typically fairly aggressive when I flop a pair or a good draw against a likely steal, so the problem this creates is that it invites players to steal against me on the turn when I don't show strength on the flop.
So, I think occasionally playing passively has some metagame value against aggressive players who are paying attention. Whether or not these players are paying attention, I think it'd be good to get in the habit of mixing up my play in this way for when my opponents are capable of exploiting a tendency like this.
For what it's worth, he was bluffing the whole way with ten high.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Very rarily do I associate much raising value postflop with TPNK facing aggression, especially when people are more than willing to be aggressive the entire way.
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
For what it's worth, he was bluffing the whole way with ten high.
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Says all doesn't it. Lots of players don't adjust to passive postflop tendencies especially not when they can't put you on a hand. B/C you can't have a king as you would have certainly raied.
Me and Jeff have been taken similar lines a lot, back when we played lots of LHE. Raising doesn't accomplish anything. Thing is you might raise turn and charge a str8 or flush draw. However if you only call he is so likely to bet again with a busted draw and thus you still gain the bet.
One other thing though. Don't defend K2s.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by StinkyBeaver
One other thing though. Don't defend K2s.
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How come? Lack of postflop playability? Do you defend with A-2?
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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Kingcodered rules and thoughts:
Don't steal or defend something with a deuce or a trey. I don't know wether he goes by these anymore, but IMO they make a shitload of sense.
The short of it is that you are bound to loose a lot of money everytime both of you flops a K, and when you flop a deuce you still loose to 33+
ofcourse 22 and 33 doesn't count in this rule.
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